Author Topic: Two really basic questions...  (Read 1367 times)

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Offline BigBrother

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Two really basic questions...
« on: July 14, 2009, 09:06:24 PM »
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  • Hey all.  This forum has been really helpful so far, and I'm posting my latest questions as I get into things...

    1. The first question revolves around "what next".  I think I've graduated out of my beginner stage.  I can basically do what I consider boogie boarding with standing :) .  That is, riding white water or waves after they've broken all the way to shore, and stand on about 9 out of every 10 I hit.  So of course, after this I started looking at some guys next to me and got to thinking "huh, well, now I need to actually stand before they're breaking and surf!"  I tried a couple of times but it felt like I was teetering on the edge of a cliff and I splatted.  I've talked to some people and I clearly need to angle myself into the wall, and position the rail into it, but I'm still shaky on basic steps.   So any advice would be really helpful!!

    2. Forecasting- I can read things like wave height or period easy enough, but I still don't get how you judge or read up on the peel of the waves.  If a forecast tells me 3-4 ft., and I head out there and it's all breaking even with the shore, I won't get to practice what I mentioned above.  So what do you look for in a forecast to tell you "okay, there will be some actual tubes today"?

    Feel free to answer one or both, and thanks a lot for your help! 

    Offline SeaCliff

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 09:10:40 PM »
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  • This post is best suited to the tips and techniques room, so I'm going to move it there.

    As for help, I'll def post some thoughts for you in a bit when I have a little time, but there's a ton of people on here that can help you out that are way more qualified than me, I'm sure they'll chime in shortly!
    Webmaster, NYNJSurf.com - Follow NYNJSurf on Instagram - click here ---> @NYNJSurf - Site Comments, questions or requests? Email me! [email protected]

    Offline BigBrother

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 11:09:50 PM »
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  • Thanks SeaCliff.  Hope I get some answers soon!

    Offline Old_Rock_Guy_in_NH

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 08:26:08 AM »
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  • I use to ride a boogie in CA when the blackball went up, so I can relate perfectly.  Now a bit depends on how long a board your riding, but in general here is the way to look at it. Yes, you are on a cliff in comparison. Since you don't have the ability to bend with the wave on a surfboard, you are in essence floatsam on top of the water.  The main difference in accomplishing a takeoff, on either vehicle, is to get up to the speed of the wave your trying to catch. Think of trying to jump a freight train. You need to equal the velocity of the train before you can transfer your mass to the moving surface. A boogie board you simply use the drop to gain that speed. The same technique in surfing IS possible, but can really only be pulled off by a small percentage of surfers.  So paddling into the wave is your only option and to do this you need to get up to speed in concert with where you want to be on the wave.  Short answer here is to paddle when the wave is 10-20 feet away from you and get going as fast as you possibly can (work on building up your top speed by training some).  As the wave lifts you you should start to slide down the face and hence to won't be up on the "ledge". Your really getting to your feet as the ride has already started.  The ideal is to turn at the same time as you get to your feet. Angling into the wave is the easiest way to do this, BUT just be aware the every degree of angle slows your speed, since you are now moving on a different path then the approaching wave.  So a small degree of angle is a good thing, too much angle can cause you to miss the wave.  That's the short answer, as best I can describe it.
     
     
     
    « Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 08:28:44 AM by Old_Rock_Guy_in_NH »
    If I am not here then I must be there

    Offline SeaCliff

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 03:37:19 PM »
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  • The main difference in accomplishing a takeoff, on either vehicle, is to get up to the speed of the wave your trying to catch. Think of trying to jump a freight train. You need to equal the velocity of the train before you can transfer your mass to the moving surface.
     

    That's the perfect analogy!!

    Short answer here is to paddle when the wave is 10-20 feet away from you and get going as fast as you possibly can (work on building up your top speed by training some).  As the wave lifts you you should start to slide down the face and hence to won't be up on the "ledge".
     

    The single biggest mistake I see beginners making here is forgetting to constantly look back over your shoulders at the approaching wave as they are paddling, essentially allowing the wave to catch them by surprise. By looking back, you can make slight adjustments in your paddling speed and angle that will significantly improve your chances of making the wave.

      The ideal is to turn at the same time as you get to your feet. Angling into the wave is the easiest way to do this, BUT just be aware the every degree of angle slows your speed, since you are now moving on a different path then the approaching wave.  So a small degree of angle is a good thing, too much angle can cause you to miss the wave.  That's the short answer, as best I can describe it.
     

    Again, by looking back at the wave, you can learn to judge just how much and which direction to angle. A rideable wave is either going to break left or right. If it's not breaking either way, it's by definition a closeout and not a wave that you want.

    Not shockingly, ORG nailed it - listen to the man, BigBrother - he'll learn ya good!
    Webmaster, NYNJSurf.com - Follow NYNJSurf on Instagram - click here ---> @NYNJSurf - Site Comments, questions or requests? Email me! [email protected]

    Offline BigBrother

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 03:00:00 AM »
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  • Thanks guys- what about determining this rideability by the forecasts?  What should I look for?  Because, as I mentioned, big waves will do me no good if they're closeouts!

    Offline Old_Rock_Guy_in_NH

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 08:10:38 AM »
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  • No one has devised the individualy tailored forecast yet (though LN, I do have some ideas on how we could do that) so you need to work on your own system. The variables are great and you're dealing with the not always correct model forecasts in most cases. Best way to learn is to start paying attention to the details and learn how each affects you.  Get data , compile analysis, try solutions and make adjustments.  And since the flat to "too big" ratio on the east coast is like 50:1, I am not sure I would put too much energy into sweating that side of the curve. Maybe start with seeing if it's big enough to ride. Then your more in the 5 or 10:1 range.
    If I am not here then I must be there

    Offline The Lone Surfer

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 09:22:35 AM »
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  • No one has devised the individualy tailored forecast yet (though LN, I do have some ideas on how we could do that) so you need to work on your own system. The variables are great and you're dealing with the not always correct model forecasts in most cases. Best way to learn is to start paying attention to the details and learn how each affects you.  Get data , compile analysis, try solutions and make adjustments.  And since the flat to "too big" ratio on the east coast is like 50:1, I am not sure I would put too much energy into sweating that side of the curve. Maybe start with seeing if it's big enough to ride. Then your more in the 5 or 10:1 range.

    And every beach/spot is different. A closeout day at my regular spot could be perfect peeling waves at your spot, with a thousand variations in between, which then change through the day with tide, wind and other factors.

    Offline tummee

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 09:31:18 AM »
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  • Lots of good advice for you.

    It may not be the most valuable $.02 on the market, but when I started back up again fours years ago, I would check the forecasts, the cams... unless it was freezing out and looked absolutely flat or was WAY too big and hairy, I'd go regardless. You can always learn something or practice your paddling on a day that seemingly is only  offering closeouts.

    With regards to the larger question, amen to what Old Rock Guy said. Learning how to properly angle into a wave takes time. But that process should not keep you from cultivating a solid bottom turn!

    Good luck!
    « Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 10:45:48 PM by tummee »

    Offline UNCLE!!

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 11:20:56 AM »
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  • Forecasting is a pain in the butt. I live at the beach and grew up by the water my whole life and I still have a pretty hard time.

    So here's what I have developed in my own pessimistic way:

    In the summer I don't expect much. Surf early though, cuz it'll be onshore by 11.

    Watch the tropics and pray.

    Wait for the fall and the return of Low pressure systems and "coastal storms"

    Invest in rubber.

    Go to the beach and try to surf. Watch the folks who know what they are doing, but be cautious and keep out of the way.

    Buy a car and go exploring.

    Go surf as much as possible and have some fun.
    Foamies are the new black

    Offline BigBrother

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 09:07:00 PM »
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  • Thanks all.  Great advice.

    Offline skSURF

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 01:52:06 PM »
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  • Three pieces of advice for beginners I always give.
    1. Deep long strokes started before the wave comes. No short little hyper splashes.
    2. Keep your chest and head down or the wave will go under you because the front of your board is pointed up in the air.
    3.Two part pop-up. Get your feet under you with your ass down before you release your hands and stand up. If your ass is over your head you will fall. You should always stand up with your head first and back as straight up and down as possible.

    This last piece is the payment for my advice.
    Stay away from everyone else until you learn to turn down the line and the rules of etiquette.
    Trust in the board.

    Offline DrZoidberg

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 10:25:14 PM »
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  • I have a basic question, and don't wanna start a new thread. First i need to explain the situation... Basically i learned to ride a wave straight into shore, not really going sideways at all and riding the whitewater. The waves were small and not really breaking sideways, but whatever.

    Basically, is now a good time to start trying to go sideways rather than straight to shore, if the wave allows? Or does the wave always allow? I've only been out once though.

    I guess i have two questions, and i've been searching for this answer for a while: Frontside or backside, which is which and which is easier. I'm sure you all are tired of this by now...
    Check out my photos

    Offline ankleslapper

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #13 on: July 17, 2009, 10:48:30 PM »
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  • Basically, is now a good time to start trying to go sideways rather than straight to shore, if the wave allows? Or does the wave always allow? I've only been out once though.

    I guess i have two questions, and i've been searching for this answer for a while: Frontside or backside, which is which and which is easier. I'm sure you all are tired of this by now...
    unless there's no open green face to your right or left (look for the open face AND other surfers), try to get on that face, going more parallel to shore in the direction the wave is breaking.  You will find it less turbulent & easier to stay on your feet than bouncing around riding whitewater.  if you can get to your feet in the whitewater, now the real fun begins -- trying to catch the wave as it's breaking (as opposed to after).   Do you know if you're regular (right foot fwd) or goofy (left foot forward)?  Frontside might be a tad easier as a beginner b/c you can see the wave you're on.  The wave will tell you which way to go, so go with that.  Good luck!
    the A is a small price to pay

    Offline ankleslapper

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    Re: Two really basic questions...
    « Reply #14 on: July 18, 2009, 06:53:03 AM »
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  • doh - was half sleeping while typing, meant to write regular=left foot fwd, goofy=right foot fwd. 
    carry on...
    the A is a small price to pay