Author Topic: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.  (Read 4044 times)

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Online Crackie Onassis

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Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2007, 01:17:03 PM »
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  • psycho you know these people are responsible for you, right? like if something happens the state is completely liable.

    That's not entirely true.

    Quote
    Exempts state and public corporations from liability for injury to property or
    personal injury, including death, of persons using public beaches when
    lifeguards are not on duty.

    Exactamundo! If it were liable for injury, then surfing would be outlawed.
    Keep this rule, it's a good one and exactly why at your own risk swimming, surfing or whathaveyou is justified.
    « Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 01:21:14 PM by The Hodges »
    So heavy you can't even pick it up.

    Offline Northstreet

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #16 on: July 30, 2007, 01:29:12 PM »
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  • that is indeed a sexy bill.....I'm pretty ignorant about the New York State government process...how can we support this bill and get it passed?

    This is really the answer....parks does not want to waste their time enforcing this crap, but they feel they have to to avoid potential litigation....

    box

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #17 on: July 30, 2007, 01:48:56 PM »
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  • that is indeed a sexy bill.....I'm pretty ignorant about the New York State government process...how can we support this bill and get it passed?

    This is really the answer....parks does not want to waste their time enforcing this crap, but they feel they have to to avoid potential litigation....


    good question, my friend! you can start by..

    *** LN edit - box, i apologize for butting into your fine post.  I didn't realize that link had been made active already.  I believe it is putting the cart before the horse to act on tactics before everyone has weighed in on what needs to be done and how.  We have already had the Wave reporter contact our representative before we knew exactly what we'd like to propose/present/support.  A half-assed random trickle of e-mails directed at the wrong people won't be as effective as an organized campaign directed at the most important targets, imho.  Northstreet and anyone else that would like to talk about the efforts that i am helping to undertake, please PM me your email address.  End LN edit ***

    there's some activity happening soon to gather petition signatures and all sorts of fun stuff to help push this through for us swimmer, surfers, snorklers and scuba divers. its not just a surfrider cause or a bill for surfers...its for everyone!
    « Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 02:02:15 PM by little_nasty »

    box

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #18 on: July 30, 2007, 02:02:08 PM »
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  • psycho you know these people are responsible for you, right? like if something happens the state is completely liable.

    That's not entirely true.

    Quote
    Exempts state and public corporations from liability for injury to property or
    personal injury, including death, of persons using public beaches when
    lifeguards are not on duty.

    Exactamundo! If it were liable for injury, then surfing would be outlawed.
    Keep this rule, it's a good one and exactly why at your own risk swimming, surfing or whathaveyou is justified.

    what's not entirely true? that the parkies and lifeguards are responsible for beach peeps during daytime beach hours? that the state can be held liable if psycho gets struck by lightning cuz they didn't clear the beach and he was in the water?








    box

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #19 on: July 30, 2007, 02:09:24 PM »
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  • LN that link has been active for several days and i've already send mine!  :-[
    please tell the website to unactivate it STAT!


    i thought this was the perfect scenario to post the link.... :-[ :'(

    Offline little_nasty

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #20 on: July 30, 2007, 02:10:33 PM »
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  • LN that link has been active for several days and i've already send mine!  :-[
    please tell the website to unactivate it STAT!


    i thought this was the perfect scenario to post the link.... :-[ :'(

    no worries, the fault is not yours.  I've sent out an email.

    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #21 on: July 30, 2007, 04:20:49 PM »
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  • I didnt get into a major arguement with anyone, All I did as well as NYCWO was ask stratigic questions to see what answers they'd give hoping we'd walk away with something to share with everyone. Not to be a downer but everything seemed fine up untill all the rucus on after hours swimming came up. Now I feel like we poked at a beez nest with out anyway to kill the beez. I know my view is unpopular but I seriously think the action towards this is premature, waiting for the opertune time is the best choice i think. They have way to much leverage against us even if we do have a few officials that show us theyre interested but as Tawanna Brawley has mentioned before, Theyve tried all this & really not done well. Only thing now is I feel like we're just giving them bonoculars & ticket book.

    You have to understand the mind rame these people have. 1 great example is when they took a certain kids skateboard away. him & his friends had permission from the parky who watches the park to sk8 with out a helmet, theyre young & trusted it. Theres 1 particular brown shirt powertripped egotisticle fellah(I am assuming a rascist too) who is known to target these few kids, the same guy who tried to act tuff to me & Poppagb about a "Media permit when shooting snapshots of surfers, saw them skating & went berzerk on the kids. beign young they lashed out back, arguing their point of the permission given but the lady in question denied it becuase she didnt wanna et into trouble. in tunr the park dude took their boards & told them,
    "Your not allow to skate now, if you want your board tell your parents to come get it but if they come thru my door, theyre getting fined $200.00 for public disobedience." they just let the guy speed off in his van.

    They told me this as I saw the van coming up the street. he was going abut 2 MPH leaning like a gansta on the wheel, I waved for him to stop but went by me ike he wanted to fight but kept going. I said hey man stop, he kept on going & yelled Hey, Yo, hellooo, Do I have to call your supervisor?!! he put it reverse & acted tuff, "Yo what did you say to me?" I asked for his name & badge. At 1rst he wouldnt say but after I asked for his side of the story, he told me, "Those kids skate every day, theyre nothing but trouble, they always were, always will be, just look at em." I saidf man thyre 12, what else do kids do at 12? but thats not what I asked, he goes on to tell me the parents can come pick up the board & he only took it away becuase they became violent & out raged when he asked them to leave after hours. I said that they told me the parks lady said they could skate, he says yeah thats what they said but I talked to her & she said no, I said oh so your sayign the park was open & you went looking for them? he leans over & says come man, look at them.I chase em all over, look at em climbing on the fence." I said, their children, kids climb on things, I did & most of the trees, fences & tables were in public parks. Your holding there board randsom man & its wrong. he says, "OK, their parents probabaly wont get fined but I did take the board becuase they broke the rules."

    he changed his attitude when i started poking into the reasons why he acted against them. he hates them, I dont dont what"Look at em" means but Im safe to say he has a prblem with the 2 little black children & has constantly, I have him on video driving up to them while theyre sitting on a bench & he harrasses em for like 10 or 15 minutes tryign to geta reaction from them. its bull, they were all once the kids that might have ended up like the ones on my block that went down the R0ck path of trouble, theft, drugdealing & total kaos in the street, they dont care about garbage, crackheads under the boardwalk or people on the beach breaking rules but they do have a problem with some 12 year olds & surfers who are the least amount of trouble in this whole frickin town. Another instance was the Parky who told a thief to hurry up & run when a guy cuaght him, then was later confirmed by another brown shirt that this was not the 1rst time this happened & that favors & illegal activity is a problem & things like this have happened before with in her department. Favors? for crroks who steal off the beach? Thats the mentality & its just as backwards as allowing a bunch of people swim after hours who are in the majority, too ignorant to save themselves in the ocean in the event they need too. This is they way it is, with development, things will change but at the moent I think we're jumping the gun a bit. I believe all this can be accomplishes eventually but theres alot that needs changing before this recreational issue of swimming can be delt with , with out it damaging other aspects of our surfing lifestyles just yet. I think for everystep forward you take on this, it will take surfing a step back despite the opening of a summer 2nd surf beach.

    for christ sakes they closed a whole beach for thinking there was going to be a rain storm. if that doesnt tell yall something, I dont know what does. lol!

    « Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 04:28:12 PM by Sasquatchian Beast »

    Offline mattc

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #22 on: July 30, 2007, 04:40:17 PM »
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  • I understand trying to bring up a point about liability, access and general laws regarding the beach, but common sense would tell me that if a lifeguard is telling people to clear a beach because lighting might be in the area that might supersede whatever I know about my right to enter a beach. Yesterday they cleared the beach where I was sitting after they heard a tiny rumble of thunder from a storm that was miles away….tiny. I left the beach wondering if it was just some military jet flying out over the Atlantic.   45 minutes later I watched a bolt come down between my deck and the inlet buoy. Even if I had the right to stand on that beach, I would not have done so.

    Offline Waves be Good

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #23 on: July 30, 2007, 04:59:24 PM »
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  • It seems like getting behind Michelle Goldstein's bill is the most sensible thing to do for the time being.

    American society is shaped by punitive law suits and a paranoia of liability. If the city is cleared of liability for anyone's injury the policy will eventually catch up with the law and the parkies, brownies and lifeguards will eventually absorb the change in policy.

    (I can't imagine how ugly the scene would be if the authorities tried to fish us out of the water on a long-awaited and gorgeous swell because of nearby lightning. Tempers could get really out of hand if we haven't dealt with this. Many of us have been out there in thunderstorms before and many of us wouldn't hesitate to take that same risk again. Meanwhile, the only reason for wishing summer to end continues to be our limited surfing options.)
    Wikipedia: "Over the next month, several M.I.L.F. commanders were tagged by government officials"

    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #24 on: July 30, 2007, 05:21:12 PM »
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  • Werd, Ive seen quite a few of the greatest rock surfers rock it in lightning storms. None the less MattC, it was sunny & no Lightning. couple hours later hundreds of people were frustrated & left the beach hours later once it did finally rain but Ive never seen them lock the beach down like that before. Even durring the shark scare, we were out of the water for 20 minutes, heck they didnt even kick some people out.

    Offline 1s

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #25 on: July 30, 2007, 06:07:17 PM »
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  • Beach is closed for 1/2hr. after thunder is 1st heard, it's state law, beach is reopened if no thunder heard after 1/2 hr., happens at all the state parks too.

    Lightening can strike, even up to 5 miles away, if thunder is heard in the distance.

    Online Crackie Onassis

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #26 on: July 30, 2007, 08:00:08 PM »
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  • Box, I was speaking to state liability for acts of nature.

    Psycho, for a guy who's argued that booging and surfing are the same thing for years, I'm surprised that you haven't realised yet that all are forms of swimming.
    So heavy you can't even pick it up.

    Offline nycwipeout

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #27 on: July 31, 2007, 12:53:17 AM »
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  • Beach is closed for 1/2hr. after thunder is 1st heard, it's state law, beach is reopened if no thunder heard after 1/2 hr., happens at all the state parks too.

    Lightening can strike, even up to 5 miles away, if thunder is heard in the distance.

    so what law is that one?
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    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #28 on: July 31, 2007, 09:34:31 AM »
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  • Box, I was speaking to state liability for acts of nature.

    Psycho, for a guy who's argued that booging and surfing are the same thing for years, I'm surprised that you haven't realised yet that all are forms of swimming.

    Thats the catch 22, theyre so ignorant, they cant understand that point but they are the Majority. Thats my whole point, You all arent really reading into what im saying, I agree with you all in terms of swimming, surfing, A free beach where its ike Hawaii or wherever but we dont have this cultural mind set in NYC. They dont get the "ocean serving fishing Village, respect" mentality. But at the same time becuase theyre ignorant & have been for so long, we have been allowed to surf freely. If this bill gets to a vote, believe me, Its got mine. Im just saying I think we should probabaly not get so motivated with public officials publically untill we can build a strong case localy. Alot of Local people are in favor of swimming after hours but are afraid to touch the subject becuase they know what happenes when its come up before. Im not saying have closed door meeting, I think maybe smaller media campagnes should  go out & educate the people about the things that are going on here, get them involved so they feel like they have some say too & support would be great but I still believe the swim issue is premature and the other issues like Garbage, environmental & educational issues are higher on the list. Who cares about swimming if the waters foul, the beach is foul & the people swiming & surfing risk drowning & litter constantly. there should be fines for litterbugs cuaght by the Parkies or police. Why focus so much attention on swimming when in my opinion, we need to change the basic living conditions & attitude towards the cukture here 1rst, then a year 2 years down the road when the new arverne is filling up with home owners, get them early, get a group of fresh blood into the mix, fresh money starts asking questions about swimming after hours in a large number, then yes thats the time to strike on the swim thing but the more education & the cleanlier the environment gets, the more potential home owners will be interseted. Hit up the new housing owners from 96th up. Flyer, talk with them as they water their grass. We need a grass roots movement of sorts to get any of this stuff rolling. rust me, they care, the long term residents do to, I think, but not if someones telling them to, but rather asking them for their knowledge & help, there has to be a way to get them motivated & 116th up doesnt seem to have these same problems for a reason. as a community they made sure it doesnt happen, the homeowners basically told the gubment what they want or they aint gonna vote for people. theyre gonna use theyre word of mouth skills to protect their community. Get larger scale town mentallity workin in their favor & look, they have clean beaches, no parking on the streets in the summer so people cant park theyre buns on a beach & litter it up. They did good somehow but its gonna take time & carefull planning & like waiting for that set wave, we have to be patient. Seems like every other day someone pops up with a Law that no one knew about or thought it was a different one, we need the story, the history of whynits been denied before too.

    Gotta learn & test things out. Right now I think a major focus should be on the other serious issues & build a repore with the local officials, local people & show them all that what we're doing is what theyre involved in too & once we've accomplished responsabley some changes like the garbage, the environmental & social aspects, then go for something like that so that we'll have the respect & numbers to do it with out much of a fight from anyone. Thats all Im saying. I know where everyone stands, ive heard it before but even ninjas gotta sweep the floor & paint the fence before they can go out & kill it, right?

    P.S. me & the Bride had a sicjk fun Moonlight body surfing session last night for hours, so much fuin, no one bothered us.
    « Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 09:38:54 AM by Sasquatchian Beast »

    Offline nycwipeout

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #29 on: July 31, 2007, 11:56:21 AM »
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  • P.S. me & the Bride had a sicjk fun Moonlight body surfing session last night for hours, so much fuin, no one bothered us.

    nekkid?  ;D
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