Author Topic: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.  (Read 4045 times)

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Offline PSYCHO

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Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
« on: July 30, 2007, 09:56:30 AM »
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  • Yesterday I had my friend from Atlanta up on the beach, I had just plopped our stuff down on the sand, its hot, sunny, Humid & see all the lifeguards out of the chairs & up on the boardwalk. I didnt really klnow what was going on but the beaches except for the surf beach, were completely empty. the Lifeguards were instructed to get everyone off the beach becuase there was thunder in the background somewhere from a storm passing over the buroughs. No lightning, no rain, no heavy oceans, other then a slight noise off in the distance, no storm but they evactuated the beach alomost in an alarmed panic becuase they said a storm was coming. BECUASE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS COMING.  ::) Yeah a rain storm, possible showers, thunder & maybe some lightning. The Park Dpt. finally kicked everyone out of the water & forced all surfers off the beach. I asked them whats going on, the ladies response was, The head of the lifeguards told us to make everyone get out of the water & off the surf beach. Me &  NYCWO were asking about the LG's authority over the surf beach being as they've been excluded from authority & the parks Dpt. usually governs the rules of the public beaches or property especially the surf beach with there are no lifeguards present. She argued that the LG captain told her to do it so she is doing it & told us to get off the sand & go talk to him. If anyone knows this guy, (If its the same super aggressive pro-local guy) you know how crazy & out of control he gets when you question anything about "His Beach". The last time I trouble with him he actually got in my face & we almost had a serious problem over something that wasnt even my fualt. (He flies of the handle after the Parks department told me I wasnt allowed to Bodyboard in the surf beach & forced me to boog the box, he ran out & threatened me & screammed at my like an A-hole about me even being in there before he even knew why I was there, gettying in my face like a 17 year old bully & when I told him the parks depo told me to go there & still said he didnt care & threatened me with calling the police Even saidm "You know who I am? This is MY beach! if the Parkies didnt come to tell him it was true, I think this gy wouldve tried to wrestle me into an arrest of some sort. That was 2 years ago) So you can Imgaine why I have no interest in speaking to this unreasonable human being.

    Finally the Parks ask me & NYCWO if we were refusing to leave the beach in a tone that told us, she would probabaly call for police support very soon. My wife gave me that look that says, We cannot afford this kinda shiz today so, I walked up onto the board walk with the entire population of the weekend beach crowd to stand on the board walk.2 hours later,, still no rain, no storm no nothing but the beach was still closed. Lifeguards frolicked on the boardwalk, Hoola Hooped & rode bikes while the whole beach sat in the heat waiting to et permission to go back in, that wasnt coming. Meanwhile after checking LI & NJ beaches sites, there wasnt a sngle closing. NYC Parks Depo is awfull. I know alotta people were like, Big deal theres no waves anyway but, this goes beyond that, What if there was? What if everytime theres a storm which we wait for due to better surf conditions, from here on out? What if the entire beach shuts down & your not allowed to surf on the best to worse days? All this crap was Grand standing, over acting the part for some stupid reason. they dedicated the new surf beach & & a few people said they were showboating becuase of it, who knows? It was an embarassment to the city of NY. Everyone we know should spread the word & send out an Email of the discust the people above them all. It was absolutely unecessary & the saddest thing to close the beach becuase they "Thought" a big storm was coming. Thought!? Then it rained later, a normal quiet rain storm with a lil thunder & the occasional lightning flash off in the distance but again, this was hours later while beachgoers sat in piles on the board walk in disbelief that they had traveled hours to sit on a stagnent boardwalk. If they start closing beaches off everytime theres a storm or the thought of a storm, we have a serious farking issue here.
    « Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 10:14:58 AM by Sasquatchian Beast »

    Offline Crackie Onassis

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 10:05:36 AM »
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  • Yesterday I had my friend from Atlanta up on the beach, I had just plopped our stuff down on the sand, its hot, sunny, Humid & see all the lifeguards out of the chairs & up on the boardwalk. I didnt really klnow what was going on but the beaches except for the surf beach, were completely empty. the Lifeguards were instructed to get everyone off the beach becuase there was thunder in the background somewhere from a storm passing over the buroughs. No lightning, no rain, no heavy oceans, other then a slight noise off in the distance, no storm but they evactuated the beach alomost in an alarmed panic becuase they said a storm was coming. BECUASE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS COMING.  ::) Yeah a rain storm, possible showers, thunder & maybe some lightning. The Park Dpt. finally kicked everyone out of the water & forced all surfers off the beach. I asked them whats going on, the ladies response was, The head of the lifeguards told us to make everyone get out of the water & off the surf beach. Me &  NYCWO were asking about the LG's authority over the surf beach being as they've been excluded from authority & the parks Dpt. usually governs the rules of the public beaches or property especially the surf beach with there are no lifeguards present. She argued that the LG captain told her to do it so she is doing it & told us to get off the sand & go talk to him. If anyone knows this guy, (If its the same super aggressive pro-local guy) you know how crazy & out of control he gets when you question anything about "His Beach". The last time I trouble with him he actually got in my face & we almost had a serious problem over something that wasnt even my fualt. (He flies of the handle after the Parks department told me I wasnt allowed to Bodyboard in the surf beach & forced me to boog the box, he ran out & threatened me & screammed at my like an A-hole about me even being in there before he even knew why I was there, gettying in my face like a 17 year old bully & when I told him the parks depo told me to go there & still said he didnt care & threatened me with calling the police Even saidm "You know who I am? This is MY beach! if the Parkies didnt come to tell him it was true, I think this gy wouldve tried to wrestle me into an arrest of some sort. That was 2 years ago) So you can Imgaine why I have no interest in speaking to this unreasonable human being.

    Finally the Parks ask me & NYCWO if we were refusing to leave the beach in a tone that told us, she would probabaly call for police support very soon. My wife gave me that look that says, We cannot afford this kinda shiz today so, I walked up onto the board walk with the entire population of the weekend beach crowd to stand on the board walk.

    2 hours later,, still no rain, no storm no nothing but the beach was still closed. Lifeguards frolicked on the boardwalk, Hoola Hooped & rode bikes while the whole beach sat in the heat waiting to et permission to go back in, that wasnt coming. Meanwhile after checking LI & NJ beaches sites, there wasnt a sngle closing. NYC Parks Depo is awfull. I know alotta people were like, Big deal theres no waves anyway but, this goes beyond that, What if there was? What if everytime theres a storm which we wait for due to better surf conditions, from here on out? What if the entire beach shuts down & your not allowed to surf on the best to worse days? All this crap was Grand standing, over acting the part for some stupid reason. they dedicated the new surf beach & & a few people said they were showboating becuase of it, who knows? It was an embarassment to the city of NY. Everyone we know should spread the word & send out an Email of the discust the people above them all. It was absolutely unecessary & the saddest thing to close the beach becuase they "Thought" a big storm was coming. Thought!?

    Then it rained later, a normal quiet rain storm with a lil thunder & the occasional lightning flash off in the distance but again, this was hours later while beachgoers sat in piles on the board walk in disbelief that they had traveled hours to sit on a stagnent boardwalk. If they start closing beaches off everything theres a storm or the thought of a storm, we have a serious farking issue here.

    One more month.
    So heavy you can't even pick it up.

    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 10:20:10 AM »
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  • Are we sure? Everythng is changing. I got regulated for surfing my favorite spot AFTER HOURS last week. A Parks lady trounced over the protected bird land to regulate me out of the water even thos it was about 7:30pm. Told me I must surf in the designated surf area 2 jetties over. I said, It after 6pm, and theres not a single wave in that part, she said it was manditory I stay in the surf beaches. We're talking about after hours here. Then when she realized I had a valid point & she couldnt debate anymore, she made up some cokamaimey story about me even touching the sand with my feet would harm the protected birds, so me being in the water nearby is hurting them. meanwhile, many people including herself walked along the beach, even sat a towel down as she again climbed through the roped off area to et back to her quad. Even th New surf beach is surrounded by these protected bird sections, she was full of it. I dont know man. As I mentioned before, If I start getting regulated in the winter as well, this could get ugly.

    Offline nycwipeout

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 10:50:07 AM »
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  • this is where it becomes a double standard & surfers are discriminated against - do they closedown central park & clear out all the joggers & bicyclists in a 'threat' of a thunderstorm? Do they close down Washington Sq. Park in the advent of a thuderstorm?

    NO!!!!

    THEY DON"T!!!!
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    Online the Kook

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #4 on: July 30, 2007, 11:01:38 AM »
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  • Are we sure? Everythng is changing. I got regulated for surfing my favorite spot AFTER HOURS last week. A Parks lady trounced over the protected bird land to regulate me out of the water even thos it was about 7:30pm. Told me I must surf in the designated surf area 2 jetties over. I said, It after 6pm, and theres not a single wave in that part, she said it was manditory I stay in the surf beaches. We're talking about after hours here. Then when she realized I had a valid point & she couldnt debate anymore, she made up some cokamaimey story about me even touching the sand with my feet would harm the protected birds, so me being in the water nearby is hurting them. meanwhile, many people including herself walked along the beach, even sat a towel down as she again climbed through the roped off area to et back to her quad. Even th New surf beach is surrounded by these protected bird sections, she was full of it. I dont know man. As I mentioned before, If I start getting regulated in the winter as well, this could get ugly.

    On advice of legal counsel, I would not rely on the stance you are taking.  NYS health code DOES NO ALLOW surfing on a closed or unprotected beach.  The code states that surfing is NOT allowed on an open and lifeguard protected beach, but it does not specifically state that surfing is allowed on and closed and unprotected beach.  I am serious here.  This come from a lawyer.  If you want to be the test case.........
    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

    No, I am not a smart ass.......I am a skilled, trained professional in pointing out the obvious and I speak fluent sarcasm.


    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #5 on: July 30, 2007, 11:02:37 AM »
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  • Nope they dont, Good point NYCWO.

    Justa yourself this quietly in your heads? I hope we never see the day but I ask you this, how would you handle it if this happened to you.
    You get up at 4:45am, check the waves see glassy perfect pealers about waste to chest high, you change out & walk over the boardwalk to see 60 people in the main peak. you tell yourself in your head, "Im not surfing in that." and you walk to where its nice & calm & away from the kooky overcrowded 92. All of a sudden a parky quad pulls up & starts blowing their whistle at 5am. You get out & they force you to surf the zoo. You realize you no longer have th freedom to relax & enjoy a wave to yourself ever again.

    What would you do? Now ask yourself, is this something that could happen & how far off is that?
    Just answering this honestly is a creepy thought. This is my worste nightmare.

    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 11:04:54 AM »
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  • Are we sure? Everythng is changing. I got regulated for surfing my favorite spot AFTER HOURS last week. A Parks lady trounced over the protected bird land to regulate me out of the water even thos it was about 7:30pm. Told me I must surf in the designated surf area 2 jetties over. I said, It after 6pm, and theres not a single wave in that part, she said it was manditory I stay in the surf beaches. We're talking about after hours here. Then when she realized I had a valid point & she couldnt debate anymore, she made up some cokamaimey story about me even touching the sand with my feet would harm the protected birds, so me being in the water nearby is hurting them. meanwhile, many people including herself walked along the beach, even sat a towel down as she again climbed through the roped off area to et back to her quad. Even th New surf beach is surrounded by these protected bird sections, she was full of it. I dont know man. As I mentioned before, If I start getting regulated in the winter as well, this could get ugly.

    On advice of legal counsel, I would not rely on the stance you are taking.  NYS health code DOES NO ALLOW surfing on a closed or unprotected beach.  The code states that surfing is NOT allowed on an open and lifeguard protected beach, but it does not specifically state that surfing is allowed on and closed and unprotected beach.  I am serious here.  This come from a lawyer.  If you want to be the test case.........

    Right but what does that mean? does it mean that even tho thres a designated surf beach, we technically are not supposed to be surfing there? I dont have a stance, Well I gues maybe my stance on Beach access is to not take any. I think these summer issues have gotten out of hand, who cares about summer? Im a surfer, not a swimmer. I love the ocean but I surf, Im interested in Surfing & what proects the ability to do so. Adfter that I see a bazillion reasons other issues are more important. None the less, closing the beach for a thunderstrom that had not yt reached the area was rediculas.
    « Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 11:07:27 AM by Sasquatchian Beast »

    Online the Kook

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 11:14:39 AM »
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  • Are we sure? Everythng is changing. I got regulated for surfing my favorite spot AFTER HOURS last week. A Parks lady trounced over the protected bird land to regulate me out of the water even thos it was about 7:30pm. Told me I must surf in the designated surf area 2 jetties over. I said, It after 6pm, and theres not a single wave in that part, she said it was manditory I stay in the surf beaches. We're talking about after hours here. Then when she realized I had a valid point & she couldnt debate anymore, she made up some cokamaimey story about me even touching the sand with my feet would harm the protected birds, so me being in the water nearby is hurting them. meanwhile, many people including herself walked along the beach, even sat a towel down as she again climbed through the roped off area to et back to her quad. Even th New surf beach is surrounded by these protected bird sections, she was full of it. I dont know man. As I mentioned before, If I start getting regulated in the winter as well, this could get ugly.

    On advice of legal counsel, I would not rely on the stance you are taking.  NYS health code DOES NO ALLOW surfing on a closed or unprotected beach.  The code states that surfing is NOT allowed on an open and lifeguard protected beach, but it does not specifically state that surfing is allowed on and closed and unprotected beach.  I am serious here.  This come from a lawyer.  If you want to be the test case.........

    Right but what does that mean? does it mean that even tho thres a designated surf beach, we technically are not supposed to be surfing there? I dont have a stance, Well I gues maybe my stance on Beach access is to not take any. I think these summer issues have gotten out of hand, who cares about summer? Im a surfer, not a swimmer. I love the ocean but I surf, Im interested in Surfing & what proects the ability to do so. Adfter that I see a bazillion reasons other issues are more important. None the less, closing the beach for a thunderstrom that had not yt reached the area was rediculas.

    The closing of the beach for a possible thunderstorm is ridiculous.  As to the legal question, our lawyer interpreted the health code to mean that if the beach was not designated for surfing then surfing is technically not allowed.  This opinion came from a lawyer who has worked on many surfing/beach access cases.
    "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" -Margaret Thatcher

    No, I am not a smart ass.......I am a skilled, trained professional in pointing out the obvious and I speak fluent sarcasm.


    Offline The Lone Surfer

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 11:50:44 AM »
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  • Nope they dont, Good point NYCWO.

    Justa yourself this quietly in your heads? I hope we never see the day but I ask you this, how would you handle it if this happened to you.
    You get up at 4:45am, check the waves see glassy perfect pealers about waste to chest high, you change out & walk over the boardwalk to see 60 people in the main peak. you tell yourself in your head, "Im not surfing in that." and you walk to where its nice & calm & away from the kooky overcrowded 92. All of a sudden a parky quad pulls up & starts blowing their whistle at 5am. You get out & they force you to surf the zoo. You realize you no longer have th freedom to relax & enjoy a wave to yourself ever again.

    What would you do? Now ask yourself, is this something that could happen & how far off is that?
    Just answering this honestly is a creepy thought. This is my worste nightmare.

    I remember reading about this exact type of thing happening in jersey all the time a little while back. How did they resolve it? And psycho, I can absolutely see this happening, especially if a surfer ever gets seriously hurt and the city finds out about it.

    Offline Crackie Onassis

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 12:06:43 PM »
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  • Nope they dont, Good point NYCWO.

    Justa yourself this quietly in your heads? I hope we never see the day but I ask you this, how would you handle it if this happened to you.
    You get up at 4:45am, check the waves see glassy perfect pealers about waste to chest high, you change out & walk over the boardwalk to see 60 people in the main peak. you tell yourself in your head, "Im not surfing in that." and you walk to where its nice & calm & away from the kooky overcrowded 92. All of a sudden a parky quad pulls up & starts blowing their whistle at 5am. You get out & they force you to surf the zoo. You realize you no longer have th freedom to relax & enjoy a wave to yourself ever again.

    What would you do? Now ask yourself, is this something that could happen & how far off is that?
    Just answering this honestly is a creepy thought. This is my worste nightmare.

    I remember reading about this exact type of thing happening in jersey all the time a little while back. How did they resolve it? And psycho, I can absolutely see this happening, especially if a surfer ever gets seriously hurt and the city finds out about it.

    Here's the nutshell explanation of what happened in NJ, and I think that Little Nasty has the full story because he was living in the area at the time. My recollection of this case, and how it all happened is a bit foggy.

    First, a beginner surfer not from the USA purchases a board and leash from Eastern Lines and goes surfing in SLNJ during a tropical swell. Leash breaks, he drowns. He's engaged to be married and his fiance sues the city and Eastern Lines.

    During this time, SL puts the clampdown on surfing and Surfrider sends some guys out to challange the surfing ban. This group would be known as the SL Three (or something catchy like that). The surfers get ticketed and challange in court. In the meantime the fiance's suit is dismissed because the court upheld that her would be husband had assumed risk when he went out into the water on a big day.

    So you still have the three guys fighting their tickets with Surfrider. The surfers won.

    My question, are there any court case out there that have ruled against access, or at your own risk bathing?
    So heavy you can't even pick it up.

    Offline Spindrift

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #10 on: July 30, 2007, 12:09:19 PM »
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  • This is sad and pathetic. And psycho is right it could happen during a pre labor day hurricane swell.

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #11 on: July 30, 2007, 12:36:23 PM »
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  • psycho you know these people are responsible for you, right? like if something happens the state is completely liable.

    Offline frroK

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #12 on: July 30, 2007, 12:47:45 PM »
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  • and they closed the WHOLE beach, not just the surfing beach.  And they def have done this stuff before, its common in the summertime. it happens on other beaches, not just r0ckaway. In coney island, brighton, Riis....
    yes , its dumb. but I doubt they can preict if theres going to be lightening, if they get a forcast of lighting I think they dont take any chances and just kick everyone off.  The DUMB part is that. eveyone gets kicked of the beach BUT gathers on HIGH ground my metal objects on teh boardwalk....!! WTF?  You have a better chance of struck there than you would on teh beach...unless im completely wrong..

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #13 on: July 30, 2007, 01:14:36 PM »
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  • and they closed the WHOLE beach, not just the surfing beach.  And they def have done this stuff before, its common in the summertime. it happens on other beaches, not just r0ckaway. In coney island, brighton, Riis....
    yes , its dumb. but I doubt they can preict if theres going to be lightening, if they get a forcast of lighting I think they dont take any chances and just kick everyone off.  The DUMB part is that. eveyone gets kicked of the beach BUT gathers on HIGH ground my metal objects on teh boardwalk....!! WTF?  You have a better chance of struck there than you would on teh beach...unless im completely wrong..


    right on, frroked. plus i'd rather not have these kids predicting if the storms gonna happen or not. there shouldn't be a grey area / room for interpretation with these things. lets leave the safety of the public in the higher ups hands versus the 17year old stoned lifeguard, eh?

    as for the liability things....check out this sexy piece of legislation....http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A07843




    Offline little_nasty

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    Re: Worse display of Beach Authority ever.
    « Reply #14 on: July 30, 2007, 01:16:14 PM »
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  • psycho, my advice to you is to go watch Gandi.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083987/

    And i don't mean watch it casually.  I mean, study it.  Randomly arguing with guards and parkies on an ad hoc basis will not get us very far.  Yes, all it takes is one man, but (a) being a lawyer, he knew the law inside and out (b) thought strategically and extremely shrewdly to bring people and resources to bear and (c) didn't act solely out of anger.

    The First and perhaps the most important Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    meeting thursday.  exercise your rights.
    « Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 01:18:19 PM by little_nasty »