Author Topic: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.  (Read 4734 times)

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Offline PTSD

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Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2007, 02:59:01 PM »
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  • what is this world coming to, Vicki is right twice in one day.

    Offline Jake

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #16 on: June 19, 2007, 03:02:23 PM »
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  • haha,  so tonight u can buy me a beer too
    Jake is back bitchesssssss

    Offline PTSD

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #17 on: June 19, 2007, 03:03:42 PM »
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  • 4500 fat boy, congrats.

    elkisthebastard

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #18 on: June 19, 2007, 03:04:08 PM »
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  • (1) No person shall fail, neglect or refuse to comply with the lawfull direction or command of any police officer, Urban park ranger, parks enforcement patrol officer or other department employee, indicated by gesture of otherwise.


    There's the Achilles' heel of that argument.  Their commands and directions have to be legal.  Haven't we established that they only have jurisdiction over surfers during park operating hours?  Although cops would like to think otherwise, they're not allowed to just make up laws willy-nilly.  It's not, you know, legal.

    Offline Jake

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #19 on: June 19, 2007, 03:05:49 PM »
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  • elk... they have lawfull jurristiction as long as there on duty...   if there tour ends at 8 pm thats what they gotta do
    Jake is back bitchesssssss

    Offline Jake

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #20 on: June 19, 2007, 03:06:34 PM »
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  • oh, and fyi  they cant expect you to know the rules so there has to be a sign with the rules in plain sight
    Jake is back bitchesssssss

    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #21 on: June 19, 2007, 03:06:59 PM »
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  • Either way, rascism isnt cool. If it truely is a factor then I really dont think its on purpose, might just be a comfort thing. I dont know but I really dont think thats the issue here. Its wether or not, theyre doing theyre jobs.

    Like Rob with the Bike, they tried to kick him off the beach for walknig his bike,. turns out according to the rules it was totally legal & he did not have to comply as per Jill. BUT!

    If some one of authority and it clearly states in the rules that they have total authority as Andy pointed out, if your breaking a legal rule, (even if 1000 other people are too) you still must comply. by not soing so just allows the situation to get out of control. 2 wrongs dont make the right. Our issue it strictly a safety issue & those issues are not being met, wether we hate the parkies or not, theyre not doing theyre jobs & theyre bosses are not either. Soe new rules may harm the surf beach we dont know but we're moving in the right direction by talking things out.

    If we have 1 surf beach in a stretch of how many miles, the least we can do is comply with the NO BATHING rule. If you or your famuily wants to watch you surf, thats fine but if we're going to be seslective about who can go in the water & who cannot based on favoritism, then no one has a right to complain about the 30 plus kids & old ladies clogging up the line up in that only surf beach. I know it sucks but Ive also heard so many people get mad at all the non surfers in the way but contyinually comlain when they want to go swim in the surf beach with their friends or family. We must stick to the rules set on us or it really makes us all ook hypocrititical & disorganized in our agenda. I tried to explain that to BJ yesterday becuase he wants to be able to swim in the surf beach & ranmted about somthing similar to the Idea PY had menioned earlier. He has a point about LG's alloowing surfing & swiming where they see fit but, this is NYC & its new for them to be considering this at all. Until they undersatnd the concepts of a beach environment & not just a city environment we have no choce but to go slowly & be compliant or they could remove surfing entirely, thats not too off base & it would be way easier to dael with for them. Sometime things dont work out the way we want sometimes but its better in the long hual for everyone.
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 03:09:10 PM by PSYCHO »

    Offline Årne Longbörgenssen

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #22 on: June 19, 2007, 03:10:45 PM »
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  • what is this world coming to, Vicki is right twice in one day.

    even a broken clock is right twice a day
    The energy contained in one kilogram of thorium
    equals four thousand tons of coal

    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #23 on: June 19, 2007, 03:13:06 PM »
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  • come on now, we're gettin off topic here. :-\ Start another thraed on the history of awfull white people things in the other rooms. we're loosing site of the issues here with this.

    Offline nycwipeout

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #24 on: June 19, 2007, 03:24:56 PM »
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  • part of the issue with a designated beach for surfing is the access laws are relaxed for surfers to be on the beach when the beach (read = park) is officially closed.

    the surfing summonses in the past wasn't for surfing but violating closed beach rules, basically a tresspassing issue.

    I will want to also add that what sparked a lot of this debate/discussion was the harrassment that Pefa & I received in seperate incidents from accessing the 'ocean' on our paddleboards.

    It is commonly known that below the hightide mark it is federal territory, so the parks people actually have no jurisdiction over peole in the water, however, that have jurisdiction over you and everyone else accessing it.
    New t-shirts available, check em out at
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    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #25 on: June 19, 2007, 03:43:52 PM »
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  • My one fear is I dont wanna bring up too many winter issues in fear they'll try forcing the designated areas on us in the winter as well. If I thought for a second this would upset that free surfing winter wonderland at all, I would allow the parkies to do whatsvere they wanted to me all summer long. Summer is a pain in the az but Im not willing to give up my winters to a designated beach. I would ahve to leave r0ck. sounds harsh but I dont have to deal with this If I move to LI or Jerz. I just love my town, I want nothing more than something good for the summer & to help the environment & hopefully be a more educated system to feasabley run a real beach environment for the happiness of us all. We havent had the ticketing problem in a looong time. If it ruins our freedom int he winter I'd be pissed.

    Offline 1s

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #26 on: June 19, 2007, 04:12:07 PM »
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  • (1) No person shall fail, neglect or refuse to comply with the lawfull direction or command of any police officer, Urban park ranger, parks enforcement patrol officer or other department employee, indicated by gesture of otherwise.


    There's the Achilles' heel of that argument.  Their commands and directions have to be legal.  Haven't we established that they only have jurisdiction over surfers during park operating hours?  Although cops would like to think otherwise, they're not allowed to just make up laws willy-nilly.  It's not, you know, legal.

    Excellent point!


    This thread was not meant to provoke a racial riot amongst surfers. My point was that maybe, just maybe, the Parkies live in neighborhoods where the type of people they see on the beach breaking rules remind them of the type of people that shoot up people on their streets, in their neighborhoods, so maybe they're afraid to give tickets to certain types of people for fear of getting stabbed/beat up/shot/confronted. Maybe they feel more comfortable giving a summons to someone who won't stab/shoot/beat up/confront them.

    Sometimes police like to ticket the well dressed, cooperative trouble maker versus the 15yr. old, pants off his ass, hip hopper because it's safer, white or black (lets not forget about all the other colors out there).

    I'm wondering why people are worried about surfing "after hours" and why there's any question about this on the parks dept. side. The law states bathers and surfers must be kept separate, before 10am and after 6pm the beach is closed to bathing so there should be no issue with parkies asking surfers to leave the water. There should be no issue with surfers surfing on beaches closed to bathing. Isn't that stated as obvious in the NYS Health Code?

    Surfers should be able to surf a red flag beach any time of day, when no bathers are present and the particular beach is closed. On an open bathing beach, no surfing during lifeguard hours. Simple.


    « Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 04:16:45 PM by 1s »

    Offline little_nasty

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #27 on: June 19, 2007, 04:13:49 PM »
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  • part of the issue with a designated beach for surfing is the access laws are relaxed for surfers to be on the beach when the beach (read = park) is officially closed.

    the surfing summonses in the past wasn't for surfing but violating closed beach rules, basically a tresspassing issue.

    I will want to also add that what sparked a lot of this debate/discussion was the harrassment that Pefa & I received in seperate incidents from accessing the 'ocean' on our paddleboards.

    It is commonly known that below the hightide mark it is federal territory, so the parks people actually have no jurisdiction over peole in the water, however, that have jurisdiction over you and everyone else accessing it.

    Technically, the shoreline to 3 miles out is in State jurisdiction.  Federal starts at 3nm offshore and extends to 12nm or 24nm.  There are other federal laws having to to with navigable waterways - to the extent that your surfboard is a transportation vessel - but that would generally require you to either have it registered with NYSDMV or documented with the USCG.  I should note, that this is not a ridiculous option should push ever come to shove.

    i don't know where that leaves the parks officials in terms of jurisdiction in the water.

    Finally, the high tide line is the delineation for some places, for others low-tide or mean tide, etc.  Just an fyi.  I think NYS is mean high tide mark as generally accepted in the public trust doctrine.

    anyway, i or someone will probasbly be doing some research on all this stuff as well as the bathing laws etc. once we have some more direction.




    edit: found the law for you nycwo: Submerged Lands Act of 1953 (43 U.S.C. 1301)
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 04:16:06 PM by little_nasty »

    Offline 1s

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #28 on: June 19, 2007, 04:20:15 PM »
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  • I also read somewhere (looking for it) that the city can have jurisdiction over waters some distance from shore. I'm not 100% sure about that but will look for more info.

    Here's a site with a bunch of info. I think the person involved with it has passed away but there's a lot of good info here:
    http://www.apublicrock.com/
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 04:23:03 PM by 1s »

    Offline little_nasty

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    Re: Parks Dept./Surfing Beaches/Etc.
    « Reply #29 on: June 19, 2007, 04:23:59 PM »
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  • I also read somewhere (looking for it) that the city can have jurisdiction over waters some distance from shore. I'm not 100% sure about that but will look for more info.

    Here's a site with a bunch of info. I think the person involved with it has passed away but there's a lot of good info here:
    http://www.apublicrock.com/


    1000 feet..


    from NYS laws:

        § 13.13 Regulation of boating and water sports. Except when prohibited
      by the laws of the United States, the commissioner or other state agency
      may,  by  rule  or  regulation, regulate water sports and the operation,
      speed and mooring of boats in or upon any waters  or  waterways  in  the
      reservations  and  parks  under  the  jurisdiction of the office or such
      state agency. Such rules and regulations shall also apply to any  waters
      offshore from any bathing beach within the jurisdiction of the office or
      such state agency, and to any waters offshore of Jones Beach state park,
      Robert *central LI* state park and Orient Beach state park, but not to exceed a
      distance of one thousand feet from the shore line. Any regulation of the
      Palisades  interstate  park  commission, adopted hereunder, shall not be
      effective until approved by the commissioner.


    yea, i've seen that website..

    feel free to dig for more citations here: http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS