Author Topic: After Hours?  (Read 5139 times)

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Offline PSYCHO

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After Hours?
« on: June 21, 2007, 04:51:11 PM »
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  • OK so does anyone else see how having bathers not leaving at 6pm becuase they dont have to could really get ugly & limit where we surf? Opening up a whole new group of watchfull parks department rules, kaos with the local police & lord knows what else after hours would bring & it would put us right in with that catagory as where now, we have the happiness of watching them all leave & then surfing where we like in peace & tranquility? I dont know, I just think this whole thing falls into the "Be careful what you ask for" catagory? Its a novelty but do you want a bazillion people from all 5 boroughs all over the place by the hundreds after 6pm or Imagine till 10 or 11pm or later? Not to mention how many drown when lifeguards are on & off Duty as it is, do we need more? Im opposed to this entirely. What would the impact of 2 or 3 drownings a year as apposed to 10 to 20 bring upon our lil community? It could change everything in a way we would not be so happy. the Parks department is already worried about deaths & freak out becuase of it. Are you sure this should be a priority labeled as #1 on ur list? Just my 1 opinion but think about it carefully.
    « Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 05:00:13 PM by PSYCHO »

    Offline PlainYogurt

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #1 on: June 21, 2007, 05:07:02 PM »
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  • yea, i do not like this idea for swimmers and ordinary people..i think it is very dangerous...Bringing this up does not only affect rockaway, but all of nyc..

    By expanding beach hours, you make the city spend more money on every nyc beach...It could be dangerous for swimmers..i think leaving swimming is just fine from 10-6....i think After hours should just mean tht surfers can surf anywhere, red flag or not after 6pm..

    We should be able to surf at any red flagged beach during beach hours, and be able to surf at any beach after hours..

    I think guards and parks department HAVE to get swimmers out at 6...thats when people drown and maybe crime...

    Offline Crackie Onassis

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #2 on: June 21, 2007, 05:51:14 PM »
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    OK so does anyone else see how having bathers not leaving at 6pm becuase they dont have to could really get ugly & limit where we surf?[

    PY is right and it should work for surfers and swimmers alike. What if I don't want to surf, what if I want to bodysurf?

    Psycho, can't you see how it is 100% wrong that the NYC Parks Dept denies our non-surfing, tax-paying friends and neighbors from their absolute right to swim in the ocean any time they choose, lifeguards or not? Our beach is OVER-Regulated and that's the basic problem.

    When they made the surfing beach you know what they should have changed? NOTHING. They should have went out and got some big green flags to stick in the ground that signified the surfing area, and left the policing of the area to the lifeguards. Done and done. That is how it is done everywhere else.

    I also think that the hazzards have been overstated. I don't mean to sound cold, but yes people have drowned over the years and that is horrible. I would ask though, how many of them did not know how to swim and how many were drunk?

    Also, other cities have ocean communities, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, Atlantic City, Wrightsville, Jacksonville, etc. Guess what, those cities have had drownings too, but it is nature. This stuff happens. Sheesh. When I explain this to my friends from out of town their heads spin because it is so unfathomable.

    In the end its about access, access for everyone.

    « Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 05:53:15 PM by The Hodges »
    So heavy you can't even pick it up.

    Offline seb

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #3 on: June 21, 2007, 07:30:17 PM »
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  • NO swimming in the surf beach, ever.
    Surfing permitted only in designated surf beaches while lifeguards on duty.
    Surfing permitted on all beaches all other times.

    This is what's in place in the code right now, it just needs to be enforced. Challenging rules on swimming, throwing bodysurfing/paddleboarding in the mix will only makes things more complicated and stir away from the basic rules that were adopted not so long ago...let's try to get these enforced first and then we can expand, maybe.
    it's 6AM, have you seen a donkey?

    Offline little_nasty

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #4 on: June 21, 2007, 07:37:48 PM »
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    OK so does anyone else see how having bathers not leaving at 6pm becuase they dont have to could really get ugly & limit where we surf?[

    PY is right and it should work for surfers and swimmers alike. What if I don't want to surf, what if I want to bodysurf?

    Psycho, can't you see how it is 100% wrong that the NYC Parks Dept denies our non-surfing, tax-paying friends and neighbors from their absolute right to swim in the ocean any time they choose, lifeguards or not? Our beach is OVER-Regulated and that's the basic problem.

    When they made the surfing beach you know what they should have changed? NOTHING. They should have went out and got some big green flags to stick in the ground that signified the surfing area, and left the policing of the area to the lifeguards. Done and done. That is how it is done everywhere else.

    I also think that the hazzards have been overstated. I don't mean to sound cold, but yes people have drowned over the years and that is horrible. I would ask though, how many of them did not know how to swim and how many were drunk?

    Also, other cities have ocean communities, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, Atlantic City, Wrightsville, Jacksonville, etc. Guess what, those cities have had drownings too, but it is nature. This stuff happens. Sheesh. When I explain this to my friends from out of town their heads spin because it is so unfathomable.

    In the end its about access, access for everyone.



    AWESOME post Hodges!  I totally agree.

    Offline 1s

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #5 on: June 21, 2007, 07:57:27 PM »
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  • Lifeguards can't patrol the surf beach because if a lifeguard is patrolling the beach, then, technically (according to the NYS Health Code) the beach is open to bathing, so surfing wouldn't be allowed because (according to the NYS Health Code) surfers and bathers must be kept separate.

    I strongly agree with what PSYCHO said, albeit we might be called selfish by some people, I prefer to see the people leave and have a nice quiet evening on the beach, watching the seagulls pick through the garbage. ;)

    Offline The Lone Surfer

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #6 on: June 21, 2007, 08:50:18 PM »
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  • if i remember correctly, lifeguards call swimmers out of the water at 6 in Long Beach also. But they don't then kick people off the beach or stop swimmers from going back in the water 10 minutes later. It's kinda like the city of lb is making every reasonable effort to tell swimmers the LG are gone we are now not responsible for your actions.

    Offline little_nasty

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #7 on: June 21, 2007, 11:06:16 PM »
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  • if i remember correctly, lifeguards call swimmers out of the water at 6 in Long Beach also. But they don't then kick people off the beach or stop swimmers from going back in the water 10 minutes later. It's kinda like the city of lb is making every reasonable effort to tell swimmers the LG are gone we are now not responsible for your actions.

    that's the way it works on all the beaches i've been to on LI and NJ.

    Offline whitewash

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #8 on: June 21, 2007, 11:37:45 PM »
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  • there's prolly more pressure from the parks dept since it is the deadliest beach.

    http://tinyurl.com/2p4hec

    the post always comes up with the best headlines.

    Offline Wavy Gravy

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #9 on: June 22, 2007, 07:06:44 AM »
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  • The article states:

    "the city doesn't collect data on drowning when lifeguards are off duty, from 6 p.m. to 10 a.m"

    So it implies the City doesn't collect information, but then makes decisions on beach safety.  People dying from drowning is pretty easy to track, folks. I would think that the hospital records, or the Department of Health records would have that information.  Maybe the data isn't readily available, and the New York Post definitely don't go the extra mile on their reporting...just on their headlines. 

    Rockaway is the deadliest beach since it is the largest and longest beach. It is like saying that crime is worst in NYC than anywhere else in the country, because more people die from homicides here than anywhere else.
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    Offline PTSD

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #10 on: June 22, 2007, 08:22:08 AM »
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  • Thanks for that Post Hodges, I 100% agree, If I want to go for a swim after work because I'm too kooky to surf, I should be able too.

    Not only does this help us free up ocean use but it also warms us up to other people that have as much right to the great outdoors/ocean as we door.

    Offline Årne Longbörgenssen

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #11 on: June 22, 2007, 10:22:25 AM »
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  • please dont take this the wrong way, and its not personal, but....

    ...if i hear that someone just comes within 20 yards of a city beurocrat and even thinks of the idea of creating more beach restrictions, let alone verbalizes that idea, i am going to walk slowly to my garage, get my sledge hammer, and pound their head into a red gooey mess.
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    Offline PSYCHO

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #12 on: June 22, 2007, 10:42:02 AM »
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  • You see living in an area that has a very Ignorant outlook on a beach lifestyle is a dangerous thing. (Parks Depo & nonsurfing community) In a perfect place, what would happen is exactly what happens in LI or NJ like yall described. Here, on the other hand isnt ready. What will happen is this, mark my words. They will say ABSOLUTELY NOT, they support the parks descision to close the beach at 6pm, they are Horrified that there will be more drownings, Its embarassing to the city. the majority of the drowning we all witnessed were after hours & they will tell you for the sake of Safety & saving face from the deaths that have already occurred and yet to occure, they will say no again. Then what they'll do is focus on whose in the water after hours even more, then they'll get the parkies permission to get more strict, they'll see happy surfers down the becah out of the designated raes & get tuff on them, the surfers wuill protest, the parkies will call police, it will become an us against them thing & eventually we will return to the days of tickets. And aslo result in more rules we may not be ready to except.

    You guys are all meaning well & have some great Ideas for a time when R0ck is better managed but at this moment I think this issue doesnt coinside with building a foundation on which to stand on. I think its premature to argue this issue is all. Maybe down the road if the culture changes with in the parks depo & the community, then they will grant this but as it is now, the outside of surf community, are just not responsible enough or knowledgable enough, the parks department isnt prepared & seasoned enough for this to come to fruition. As surfers, we are yes, but the majority of the 5 burrough public is not. It works in other places becuase its historically surrounded by seafairing generations, here its city folk. We must think outside of the surf community & our own wishes sometimes. That would be great to swim after hours but for the protection of my greater love of surfing, I will not compromise & I think its a huge premature mistake to push this. I know it would suite many odf us here but we have to think clearly about reality of the situation, not being a dick, Just telling it like it is thats all.
    « Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 11:00:37 AM by PSYCHO »

    Offline PlainYogurt

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #13 on: June 22, 2007, 10:45:05 AM »
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  • i really disagree with proposing for swimming...i know a person has a choice to swim or not to swim...even if he/she does not know how to swim...its gonna lead to to much problems...should there be lifeguards?? is the city responsible? what happen if someone drowns?? even the best swimmer can drown...now, if u want swimmers to be able to swim anywhere after 6 that might interfere with surfing

    Offline little_nasty

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    Re: After Hours?
    « Reply #14 on: June 22, 2007, 11:55:15 AM »
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  • What will happen is this, mark my words. They will say ABSOLUTELY NOT, they support the parks descision to close the beach at 6pm, they are Horrified that there will be more drownings, Its embarassing to the city. the majority of the drowning we all witnessed were after hours & they will tell you for the sake of Safety & saving face from the deaths that have already occurred and yet to occure, they will say no again.

    I just have to say that in my previous "testing the waters" with city officials on this issue, you are incorrect.  Clearly the issue is liability.  Such a decision will most likely involve the city's legal team.  If we were to move forward in this direction, we must present a case that is based on real legal opinion, not the random opinionsof some guys on a messageboard.

    I will say this (again since i've said it before), there is a reason why other municipalities have decided on "bathe at your own risk" or unenforced no-swimming policies for off-hours.  Legal liability reasons.  Grounded in case law.

    i really disagree with proposing for swimming...i know a person has a choice to swim or not to swim...even if he/she does not know how to swim...its gonna lead to to much problems...should there be lifeguards?? is the city responsible? what happen if someone drowns?? even the best swimmer can drown...now, if u want swimmers to be able to swim anywhere after 6 that might interfere with surfing

    It may or may not lead to more problems for surfers.  I contend that if it is handled and presented correctly in context of an overall plan which prominently considers legal liability, that it will actually make things easier for surfers and result in more access for the entire community.