Author Topic: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question  (Read 2553 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nose_manual

  • Regular (Silver)
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
  • Liked: 43
  • Soft hated: 0
  • Karma: +2/-1
  • OS:
  • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 3.6.10 Firefox 3.6.10
    • View Profile
Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
« on: June 25, 2012, 11:27:45 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • Hey y'all.  I tried to find this elsewhere on this board but couldn't, so sorry if it's a repeat.

    Does anyone know how often the city tests water quality at local beaches?  The website doesn't provide dates for when tests occur, just ratings.  Several beaches seem more prone to advisories and warnings, but not really any of the beaches I normally surf.  I've had the dubious pleasure (actually it was really cool) of touring the wastewater treatment plant in Newtown Creek a couple times; during both trips, I met the supervisor of the plant and asked him about CSOs and whether he would personally go into the water at Rockaway beaches after a heavy rain.  His response was that there have been few (if any?) beach closures in Rockaway due to CSOs, but that seems crazy to me, and technically he sort of just avoided my question.

    Anyone have the scoop on this?  How often is testing done? How long do you wait to go into the water after a heavy rain?  Of course if it's the day of the year, I'm more likely to go, but for 1-3 ft?  Is it worth it? 

    Must be nice to live further east and have to worry about this waaaayyy less.


    Offline Northstreet

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 3471
    • Liked: 71
    • Soft hated: 3
    • Karma: +101/-101
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 8.0 MS Internet Explorer 8.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 01:31:18 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • even in areas without CSOs, like California, you can have water quality issues after a rain.   You just have to take your chances.....There aren't any CSOs directly off the beach (not in New York at least, but New Jersey has some nasty outfalls)....so there are lots of variables like tide, wind, and so on.  If they test it, you probably already went surfing by the time the results are ready....I don't really think it's great to surf after a huge rain event, but I've gone out if the waves are good enough.

    Offline nose_manual

    • Regular (Silver)
    • ***
    • Posts: 431
    • Liked: 43
    • Soft hated: 0
    • Karma: +2/-1
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 3.6.10 Firefox 3.6.10
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 02:14:09 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • even in areas without CSOs, like California, you can have water quality issues after a rain.   You just have to take your chances.....There aren't any CSOs directly off the beach (not in New York at least, but New Jersey has some nasty outfalls)....so there are lots of variables like tide, wind, and so on.  If they test it, you probably already went surfing by the time the results are ready....I don't really think it's great to surf after a huge rain event, but I've gone out if the waves are good enough.

    you mean it's not safe to surf doheny?!  ugh.  i hear you.  i think you're right about the testing time frame.  i'm curious what a "huge rain event" might mean.  like today?  or more of a steady, prolonged, day-long kind of thing?


    Offline Northstreet

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 3471
    • Liked: 71
    • Soft hated: 3
    • Karma: +101/-101
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 8.0 MS Internet Explorer 8.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 02:32:21 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • It's usually the rapid and fast rain events, like 1 inch an hour that tend to overflow the sewers.  But it's probably different for each CSO.   I'm guessing that those days at the rock that smell like a sewer do not have a high water quality......but really, I don't think we want Parks to start super regulating water quality and closing beaches...

    Offline theusername

    • Wahine
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 1420
    • Liked: 3
    • Soft hated: 0
    • Karma: +3/-0
    • green sticks
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.7 Mac OS X 10.7
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 13.0.1 Firefox 13.0.1
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 08:36:33 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • The "Sewage Pollution Right to Know Act" was recently passed in NY State Legislature: http://ecowatch.org/2012/ny-state-legislature-passes-sewage-pollution-right-to-know-act/

    I don't know about water quality testing on beaches, but prior to this act passing NY state did not have to inform the public when raw or partially treated sewage was discharged. 
    "New York, is it true that great cold
    makes the bones ache as if broken?" - Suzanne Lummis

    Offline hainspoint

    • Default
    • *
    • Posts: 41
    • Liked: 3
    • Soft hated: 0
    • Karma: +1/-4
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #5 on: July 18, 2012, 11:37:29 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • I've been looking into this because we're supposed to get a good summer thunderstorm tonight and it looks like there's a decent bump tomorrow morning, wondering whether or not I should pass up a chance to get out with some decent waves.

    The NYC DEP is publishing CSO advisories on their site:
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/harborwater/nyc_waterbody_advisory_program.shtml
    I can't tell if this is due to that law being passed, but it looks like this is just a model based on rainfall data, and not actually real information about overflows that actually happened.

    Anyways - Rockaway isn't even listed on that tool, like they don't think a CSO would ever reach there?

    I also found this page on the DOH site that lists beaches that have standing Wet Weather Advisories to stay out of the water after a certain amount of rainfall (eg stay out of the water a Coney for 12 hours if there's more than 2.5" of rain):
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/beach/beach_adv.shtml#wetweather

    so do the DOH and DEP think there's no reason to not be in the water at Rockaway after a rain?

    Offline ArchySwashbuckle

    • Local (Gold)
    • ****
    • Posts: 728
    • Liked: 49
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +1/-4
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 13.0.1 Firefox 13.0.1
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012, 06:01:40 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • I've been looking into this because we're supposed to get a good summer thunderstorm tonight and it looks like there's a decent bump tomorrow morning, wondering whether or not I should pass up a chance to get out with some decent waves.

    The NYC DEP is publishing CSO advisories on their site:
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/harborwater/nyc_waterbody_advisory_program.shtml
    I can't tell if this is due to that law being passed, but it looks like this is just a model based on rainfall data, and not actually real information about overflows that actually happened.

    Anyways - Rockaway isn't even listed on that tool, like they don't think a CSO would ever reach there?

    I also found this page on the DOH site that lists beaches that have standing Wet Weather Advisories to stay out of the water after a certain amount of rainfall (eg stay out of the water a Coney for 12 hours if there's more than 2.5" of rain):
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/beach/beach_adv.shtml#wetweather

    so do the DOH and DEP think there's no reason to not be in the water at Rockaway after a rain?
    Jeah- What the fudge?
    Rockaway is exempt from sewage or something?- Brilliant map butthead!
    Anyways- thanks for posting.
    Anyone know if they're are any sewer discharge pipes in Rock, Breezy, or Tilden?
    Always pondered that.
    Anyone else in the water Friday(downtown woka)- and notice some skunk, and I swear I kept tasting detergent to- for I kept getting a film in my mouth.
    "Waves are the ultimate illusion. They come out of nowhere, instantaneously materialize and just as quickly they break and vanish. Chasing after such fleeting mirages is a complete waste of time. That is what I chose to do with my life." Dora

    Offline Ban Gas Drilling

    • Regular (Silver)
    • ***
    • Posts: 281
    • Liked: 20
    • Soft hated: 1
    • Karma: +1/-6
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.7.4 Mac OS X 10.7.4
    • Browser:
    • Chrome 20.0.1132.57 Chrome 20.0.1132.57
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #7 on: September 01, 2012, 09:21:25 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • Avoiding government obstruction of water -use is very important as mentioned.

    The CSO system is terrible, pollution goes right out into the water.


    That said: grassroots water quality monitoring:  http://www.nycwatertrail.org/water_quality_test.html

    Classroom model for learning about CSO, Sewer in a Suitcase :http://welcometocup.org/Projects/Workshops/SewerInASuitcase

    History and how to Eliminate CSO's:
    http://macaulay.cuny.edu/eportfolios/tomkiewiczs10/?page_id=533

    Offline nose_manual

    • Regular (Silver)
    • ***
    • Posts: 431
    • Liked: 43
    • Soft hated: 0
    • Karma: +2/-1
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #8 on: September 01, 2012, 11:02:31 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • I've been looking into this because we're supposed to get a good summer thunderstorm tonight and it looks like there's a decent bump tomorrow morning, wondering whether or not I should pass up a chance to get out with some decent waves.

    The NYC DEP is publishing CSO advisories on their site:
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/harborwater/nyc_waterbody_advisory_program.shtml
    I can't tell if this is due to that law being passed, but it looks like this is just a model based on rainfall data, and not actually real information about overflows that actually happened.

    Anyways - Rockaway isn't even listed on that tool, like they don't think a CSO would ever reach there?

    I also found this page on the DOH site that lists beaches that have standing Wet Weather Advisories to stay out of the water after a certain amount of rainfall (eg stay out of the water a Coney for 12 hours if there's more than 2.5" of rain):
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/beach/beach_adv.shtml#wetweather

    so do the DOH and DEP think there's no reason to not be in the water at Rockaway after a rain?
    Jeah- What the fudge?
    Rockaway is exempt from sewage or something?- Brilliant map butthead!
    Anyways- thanks for posting.
    Anyone know if they're are any sewer discharge pipes in Rock, Breezy, or Tilden?
    Always pondered that.
    Anyone else in the water Friday(downtown woka)- and notice some skunk, and I swear I kept tasting detergent to- for I kept getting a film in my mouth.

    I think Northstreet said it best-- you take your chances and hope for the best.

    This is the best map I've found, which shows where CS outfalls are located:

    http://www.oasisnyc.net/map.aspx?zoom=1&x=1000500&y=217666.67&etabs=0&categories=CLEANUP&mainlayers=CSO%2CCache_Transit&labellayers=&satellite=BaseCache

    There are a bunch in Rock but they are all on the bay side, right near (no surprise) the water treatment plant.  Not much of a stretch to think that sewage is able to make its way, however diffused, into the ocean.  My buddy has a theory that every jetty conceals an outflow pipe--not true, but kind of funny.  Evil city planners.

    The map is also good for finding all kinds of other environmental sites...  just use the filter on the right.

    Occupy--thanks for the links.  When I teach kids about CSOs, they are appalled, as they should be.  That Sewer in a Suitcase thing is great.


    Offline Northstreet

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 3471
    • Liked: 71
    • Soft hated: 3
    • Karma: +101/-101
      • View Profile
    Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #9 on: September 01, 2012, 04:51:29 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • For what it's worth, the new sewer project in Rockaway is actually separating the sanitary sewers from the storm sewers, at least for a few blocks.

    Offline ArchySwashbuckle

    • Local (Gold)
    • ****
    • Posts: 728
    • Liked: 49
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +1/-4
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 15.0 Firefox 15.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Rockaway/Combined Sewer Overflow question
    « Reply #10 on: September 01, 2012, 05:50:31 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • Thanks for the link. Checked the map- Still no Rockaway...?
    It would be great to do this at Rock...or if your friends with this organization- I would gladly volunteer to do tests on my way from the beach a few times a week. It is insane that we don't have anyone testing the water out there.
    "Waves are the ultimate illusion. They come out of nowhere, instantaneously materialize and just as quickly they break and vanish. Chasing after such fleeting mirages is a complete waste of time. That is what I chose to do with my life." Dora

    Offline little_nasty

    • Administrator
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • *****
    • Posts: 9602
    • Liked: 23
    • Soft hated: 1
    • Karma: +510/-304
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 9.0 MS Internet Explorer 9.0
      • View Profile

    Offline ArchySwashbuckle

    • Local (Gold)
    • ****
    • Posts: 728
    • Liked: 49
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +1/-4
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 15.0 Firefox 15.0
      • View Profile
    "Waves are the ultimate illusion. They come out of nowhere, instantaneously materialize and just as quickly they break and vanish. Chasing after such fleeting mirages is a complete waste of time. That is what I chose to do with my life." Dora