Author Topic: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking  (Read 3908 times)

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Offline SeaCliff

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NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
« on: June 17, 2014, 12:15:35 PM »
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  • Still has to pass the Senate and go to the Governor, but this is an excellent first step to insuring we don't rush headlong into something that, if some claims are true, could irreparably damage our water supply. There is a current moratorium in place, but it is set to expire in May, 2015 - just 11 months from now. This would extend the moratorium an additional 3 years.


    http://ecowatch.com/2014/06/17/new-york-fracking-moratorium-senate/


    Here's an excerpt:


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    “We thank the Assembly for listening to the medical experts by overwhelmingly passing a moratorium on fracking to protect New Yorkers from the devastating health and environmental impacts,” Alex Beauchamp of Food & Water Watch and New Yorkers Against Fracking said in a statement. “Now, we’re urging Gov. Cuomo and the State Senate to stand up against the out-of-state oil and gas industry, and stand up for our state’s health, environment and long-term economy by rejecting fracking.”

    Some environmental groups might not agree that more time is needed to study fracking, but they are glad their voices, as well as those of medical professionals, have been heard. In May, a lengthy list of doctors and groups like the American Lung Association in New York wrote a letter to Cuomo stressing the impact fracking has on nearby states like Pennsylvania and West Virginia.

    “Oil and gas development utilizing HVHF [High volume horizontal hydraulic fracturing] involves the use and/or production of numerous toxic and hazardous air and water contaminants, a number of them known or suspected carcinogens,” the legislation reads. “Oil and gas development utilizing HVHF has also been associated with a range of adverse environmental impacts, including impacts to water and air quality, land and habitat, and community character.”

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    Offline CJsurf

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 09:26:04 PM »
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  • Yay!  Higher costs for electricity and heat!!!!

    Offline seb

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 09:41:09 PM »
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  • Yay!  Higher costs for electricity and heat!!!!
    it's 6AM, have you seen a donkey?

    Offline Kyle

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #3 on: June 17, 2014, 10:50:12 PM »
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  • I have always found that to be a repulsive image

    Offline handy

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    Offline CJsurf

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 01:56:12 PM »
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  • Not even a topic worth discussing on a surfing forum.  99.9% of people who post crap on the web against fracking are total sheep who wouldn't know a natural gas well if they tripped over one.  Doubt anyone here falls into the tenth of one percent.

    Offline DERPASURFA

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 02:30:39 PM »
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  • Let the rest of the country beta test fracking.   Why risk farking up NYC's water supply.

    Offline seb

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    it's 6AM, have you seen a donkey?

    Offline nose_manual

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 04:21:14 PM »
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  • Not even a topic worth discussing on a surfing forum.  99.9% of people who post crap on the web against fracking are total sheep who wouldn't know a natural gas well if they tripped over one.  Doubt anyone here falls into the tenth of one percent.

    Except you, clearly.  Sigh.

    Online OldSoul

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 04:41:29 PM »
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  • Gotta be out of your mind if you think this method of fracking is safe. I nominate anyone here who is for it to drink the contaminated water. Add some fluoride too while your at it... a known neurotoxin....but....it is good for your teeth! yea!

    Offline CJsurf

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 05:02:12 PM »
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  • Better yet you can come to my family's get away in the mountains of West Virginia where I can show you what a real gas well looks like.  There are 3 of them....fracking and all....within a short walk of the house.  I'll even let you sample the water.
    « Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 05:58:46 PM by CJsurf »

    Online OldSoul

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 09:10:03 PM »
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  • I would sell the place ! just playing. How is the noise? Are they vertical or horizontal wells? Did you get your water tested at all (assuming its from a well)? How is local wild life/game ? How long have they been fracking in the area?

    I understand that there will be cases where nothing goes wrong, but I dont think its a good idea to be pumping chemicals into the ground to break up the rock that people live on lol. I get that we need to come off oil, but I do not believe this is the way- too many risks and destruction.

    Offline Looseness

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 10:04:12 PM »
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  • CJsurf, straight up question here: you don't see any problem with pumping toxic chemicals into the ground?
    Since you base your argument on the anti-fracking crew's ignorance, please explain to me how there is no danger to the safety of ground water and reservoirs. It seems to make sense to me that it's a bad idea, but yes I have never seen a gas well that I know of and simply haven't heard any solid arguments for the safety of fracking as related to groundwater/reservoirs.
    It's no better to be safe than sorry....

    Offline CJsurf

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 06:48:56 AM »
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  • Guys,  just do a little reading from independent sources about it.  Heck start with Wikipedia.  Believe it or not Wikipedia gives a fairly level headed description of the process before going off a cliff.  Think things through logically and separate fact from fiction, exaggeration and outright propaganda.



    First learn about Natural gas and what its uses are:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas
    Then learn a little about Fracking:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing


    The vast majority of information out there against fracking is based entirely on fear mongering to take advantage of people's ignorance of the process, the risks and the benefits.  People hear this sinister sounding word FRACKING and think they are setting off atomic bombs underground or something.  Its also worth noting that a lot of the opposition is being fed by the petroleum industry who views cheap clean natural gas as a major threat to their fortunes.


    People act as if chemicals are constantly being dumped into the ground continually and that this is some sort of constant process at the well site instead of a process that is done towards the final stages of drilling a well that once drilled will produce clean natural gas un-attended all on its own for decades.  People act as though these wells are some sort of an industrial site.  People act as though this is a brand new process when in fact its been common since about 1950 and has been used in about 1 million wells in the United States.  Its bizarre the level of ignorance I read when people who have no idea post stuff against it on the web.  Its just glaring ignorance to anyone who has any real world experience with gas wells.


    Back in the late 80s when land in remote areas of West Virginia was dirt cheap my father purchased a piece of land in West Virginia.  We basically own the end of a mountain ridge and down to the valley on both sides and we have a one mile long easement / driveway from the road through the neighbor's property to access our place.  There is a 150 year old log cabin and 3 barns of unknown age.  Its hard to believe people live back in this remote area.  My father is really into nature and was always a big outdoors-man and this has been my parents dream place the past 25 years.


    At the time of purchase there were already two new evil gas wells in place on the property as well as an evil gas pipeline cutting the property in two. (you know, those evil pipelines are in the news too)  The first well is about 250 yards down slope from the cabin.  The second well is about 500 yards from the cabin.  Believe it or not the gas pipeline through the property was one of the things that added a lot of charm to the property when we were searching for the right place to purchase.  For those who've never seen one the gas pipeline is underground and it consists of a clearing through the forest about 80 yards wide.  Think of it like a pasture for deer, wild turkeys and other wildlife cause that's basically what it is.


    About 5 years ago we were notified that a third well would be drilled right beside our driveway.  Obviously we were mortified.  We didn't know what any of that meant just like you folks.  We did have the other two existing wells to think of and they were harmless enough.  Since we don't own the mineral and gas rights to the property there was little we could do to stop it anyway.


    Work began.  First they flattened off a work area about 1/3rd the size of a football field.  Brought in a few construction trailers and a drilling rig that was the size of a tractor trailer.  Down slope they dug a pond, lined it with clay and then a rubber liner.  This was to contain well fluids and fracking fluids which would be taken off site to be processed, treated and disposed of.  The well was drilled.  I'm not going to say it was a clean process.  They made a mess out of the driveway and it was an intrusion on privacy having a construction site there.  About a year and a half from putting the first shovel in the ground they were done and they cleaned up the site and put everything back as it was.  The only evidence that the work had been done is a concrete pad the size of a dinner table with a 12" pipe sticking up about 4 feet with a valve and some fittings on it.  It is tied in underground to the existing pipeline.  This well will be supplying clean natural gas to homes and power plants for the next 50 years or more.  It doesn't get any cleaner than that.


    I think this guy rather likes the gas pipeline he's sitting on top of.





    I think my pop and the deer also like the gas pipeline through the forest.





    By the way, this is what an EVIL gas pipeline looks like.  The markers are so nobody digs and blows themself up.





    Here is a BIG BAD EVIL gas well.  Do you see it? ??? ?  By the way this is what's at the top of the hill in the picture above.  If you can't see the BIG BAD EVIL GAS WELL look real closely to the center right just before the drop off and you will see a little something sticking out of the ground.  That's it.





    Here is the close up view of what you were looking for in the pic above.  When it says Victory well it means winner winner chicken dinner they struck paydirt.





    Here's the view looking up the hill from the gas well in the pictures above.  This is my personal favorite hunting spot on the property.  Several deer have become dinner within this picture frame.





    Here is what a brand spanking new EVIL gas well looks like.  Its the concrete pad with the blue thingamabob on it.  I took this picture when they were wrapping up before they put the land back the way they found it.  You will note the storage tankers for carting away the well and fracking fluids.





    When I go back in a few weeks I'll have to take a pic of what the site looks like today.  Its just overgrown and disappearing back into the landscape....you'll have to take my word on that.


    When you cook on your gas stove, heat your houses and in many cases turn on the lights, this is where the energy comes from.  It really is amazing.  Are there risks?  Sure, everything we do has risks.  Are the risks big?  Absolutely not.  Are the risks worth it?  Absolutely.  Is there a better, more potent source of energy available this cleanly, easily and cost effectively?  Absolutely not.


    The gas company has been a good neighbor to us.  We have few complaints.  They have messed up our driveway a few times with heavy equipment but always put it back better than they found it.  Every few years they come in and randomly dig up and X-ray sections of the pipeline to monitor its condition.  I should also mention that we get no financial gain from any of this as the rights to the property were sold off 75 or more years ago when exploration was first done.


    I should also post this picture of a nearby ghost town to give you an idea of the poverty in the area.  The poverty in Appalachia is absolutely stunning to people like you and me.  I remember how shocking it was when we were first travelling the area searching for property.  Can't even describe it.  People living in shacks made out of pallets or in 1950s mobile homes dumped half teetoring over the side of the slope along a road.  Children without basic clothing.  Shocking stuff that you would never expect in America.  This gas drilling is giving these people a chance.....jobs and money.  Think about it.


     
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 07:41:53 AM by CJsurf »

    Online OldSoul

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    Re: NY Assembly overwhelmingly passess moratorium on Fracking
    « Reply #14 on: June 19, 2014, 11:33:27 AM »
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  • Nice post CJ, those little wells do look harmless... but there are a lot of other things to consider.

    The amount of gasoline needed to truck in all the equipment. The actual pumping of known toxic chemicals (and what ever else is in there they aren't telling us) into the ground. Then that fluid having to be removed from the site to be processed (sold as a de-icing agent...anyone notice those trucks spraying "lines" on the road this winter? yup, fracking fluid). Besides, that's only a percentage of the total fluid amount- there is fracking fluid which gets left in the ground.

    I cant imagine how any of this is considered clean energy? Sure the actual burning of natural gas is cleaner v.s coal. But cutting down trees, have hundreds of gallons of gasoline burned to truck in toxic fluid to pump it into the ground only to waste more gas by trucking out whatever fluid comes out while leaving the rest in the ground or have it evaporate it into the air. That's not clean.

    It's not all about fear mongering, it is about showing what the potential and practically irreversible effects come out of this. Yea everything has risks, but these are some serious problems. People have to order drinking water because of contamination. I know I would rather have to pay for oil to be delivered to my home and have clean water on site.

    Talking about poverty in the area, fracking will create jobs, but what jobs are the local people going to get? Maybe a motel and a diner will have some better business, but what else? How is natural gas going to revive these communities? Gas wells don't bring tourist in lol... and when this little energy boom is over - it turns back into a ghost town, only now the resources are compromised.

    If we could get the natural gas a different way, by all means we should tap in, but I'm not convinced. Independent sources? How about all the people on youtube who cant drink their water, eat their livestock, or breathe their air due to the mishaps of fracking.