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Beach is closed for 1/2hr. after thunder is 1st heard, it's state law, beach is reopened if no thunder heard after 1/2 hr., happens at all the state parks too.

Lightening can strike, even up to 5 miles away, if thunder is heard in the distance.

so what law is that one?
pardon my niavete (not sure how it's spelt in the US)

Here's the law as taken from NYS Health Code Title 10:
Effective Date:  06/23/2004
Title: Section 6-2.16 - Control of beach and water use

6-2.16 Control of beach and water use. (a) All areas of an operator's property that are adjacent to the designated public beach area and are accessible to the public for entry into the water for bathing shall be supervised or patrolled during hours of operation. Bathing shall be prohibited where required supervision is not provided.

(b) Operators must maintain signs stating the hours during which public bathing is allowed, and that bathing at other times is prohibited.

(c) No motorized vehicles except emergency and maintenance vehicles shall be permitted on the beach.

(d) No boating, water skiing, fishing, or surfboarding shall be permitted in the bathing area during the hours bathing is allowed. Separate areas for the above activities may be designated by floating lines and buoys.

(e) Bathing at night or during electrical thunderstorms is prohibited.

(f) Clearly visible depth markings shall be provided at all diving boards, platforms, piers, floats and similar facilities. Warning signs stating "No Diving" shall be provided where water depths are less than eight feet.

(g) Diving shall not be permitted unless minimum depths in accordance with provisions in section 6-2.19, item 4.8.2, of this Subpart are provided.

(h) All plug-in electrical devices, such as portable announcing systems and radios, are prohibited within 20 feet of the water.

(i) Bather use. (1) The maximum number of bathers permitted in the bathing waters of a bathing beach shall not exceed one bather per 25 square feet of water surface. In areas of water depth greater than four feet, at least 75 square feet per bather shall be provided.

(2) The operator shall be responsible for restricting usage so that the maximum capacity is not exceeded.

(3) A sign stating the maximum number of persons who may use the bathing beach at any one time shall be posted in a conspicuous place.

(j) Glass containers shall not be permitted on the beach.

Beach is closed for 1/2hr. after thunder is 1st heard, it's state law, beach is reopened if no thunder heard after 1/2 hr., happens at all the state parks too.

Lightening can strike, even up to 5 miles away, if thunder is heard in the distance.

Yeah, Nathan Fletcher was raving about them but I think he gets boards from Stretch. He was surfing Lowers on one and ripping, really was talking up the board and seemed genuinely to like it.

France is unbelievable. Just drive down a road through the forest, head out to the beach and find an empty peak. Waves there are really dependent on tides, tide changes are huge and effect the surf, sometimes good but an hour later may not be working, huge rips, do not lose your board, you'll swim for a very long time if caught in a rip at some spots.

Try the chicken sold outside the supermarkets, the peaches, the wine...... ;D

A little more info: The kids at the NSSA contest at Lowers were not using quads. A lot of them said they tried them and just weren't getting the drive they needed and weren't happy with how the quads were turning and working in general.

don't surf lowers you will never get any waves - go to uppers and you will have much better time

I surfed there quite often and didn't have a problem getting waves, sometimes it can be frustrating but you have to pick the right time to paddle out. Sometimes there's less than 10 people out, other times 40. If you can't surf don't even bother paddling out because he's right, you won't get waves.

The area around Calafia can have some fun surf, but hollow shorebreak.

explain that to all the people a few years ago who had the police boats called in for surfing the Box when there was no swimming allowed in that aea. I was chased out as well. I was just lucky enough to not get cuaght. Many of them got tickets. For what I dont know. There were no police at 1rst asking us to leave, Just Parks dep. workers, they called the police, the police came in boats, the people who were cuaght got tickets for what I dont know.

I know some people have had instances where a police officer was cool but theres been a bazillion others who were not. If your on a beach at night & the police see you, they rally you off the closed beach. In order to surf at night, you must break a rule to get there & break one to get out. Beach is closed, NO ACCESS, this isnt hard to understand. Almost all public parks open & close at a certain time. I dont know why Im getting a vibe like I dont know what Im talking about here. It happened more then once recently even in the newer surf beach where the partkies called people out of th water for surfing. recently they called surfers out of the non surf regulated area & forced them into one, after hours. Theres no question about it, that never happened before. Ive been asked to get out of the water for surfing at night & have hid from the spot lights at night as well to avoid it.

If its never happened to you, you just havent experienced it yet. Not to mention, its your word against theres, who knows where you could end up. If you say, Its legal to surf & they slap you with a trespassing violation, lets see ya get out of that? Thats why Im saying that I will be keeping it quiet from here on out. I dont need the negetive attention.

I was there the day the forces showed up en mass and was surfing a few beaches east. I was not bothered, but did see the action as I paddled west in search of some better stuff and was also chased out, quite amusing! I had a talk with someone from parks and my friend was threatened with arrest but talked logic and they gave up, then I went surfing to another country, that was much better. That occurred before the change in the health code when surfing was not yet "legal".

As for surfing at night, yes you do have to break a "law" and cross part of the closed park to get to the water, so technically they ticket you for being in the park after hours, which you are, can't fight that, but you can go surfing, that's not illegal.

Technically, if you're breaking the law they can ticket you, but not for surfing, Paddle in at a point further west if you're that concerned about getting a ticket for being in the city park. It's totally ridiculous.

Surfing is not illegal. Be nice and tell the person hassling you that surfing is allowed on beaches not open to bathing, that is the law.

The establishment of surfing beaches was to let surfers have an area open specifically for surfing, in the busy summer months, when most beaches are open for swimming and guarded by lifeguards. This was to separate bathers from surfers as is required by law. This was not to restrict surfers to beaches closed to bathing, or after hours. You don't have to surf at the surfing beaches after hours or when beaches are closed.

You can refuse to leave a closed beach that you are surfing, they may ticket you if they fell like it, but they can't ticket you for surfing, they can ticket you for failing to obey an officer, but they need some reasonable reason to ask you to leave, not because you are surfing, you have to be breaking the law.



MY 2CENTS......



There are a lot of surfers from the community who are familiar with what has happened over the decades, most don't surf there anymore. It's the same ol' thing. The Parks Dept. comes down hard on everyone, then as the weather gets hotter they lighten up and eventually disappear. Now that surfing is not illegal, why complain? Just get 'em to keep swimmers out of the surf area from 10am to 6pm and let surfers surf any beach from 10am to 6pm that doesn't have a lifeguard, keep 90th St. for surfing from 10am to 6pm. Also, get the Parks Dept. to start giving tickets to litterbugs, and dog crap depositors.  8)

Swimming after hours would mean lifeguards, more people, more restriction, unless they kept every 5th beach open (something live that) after 6pm, and let surfers surf all beaches where there is no lifeguard on duty.

I was getting so worked up over the mess in the surfing area a couple weekends ago, then I realized that we're only really suffering from 10am to 6pm 2 days a week for 3 months . I agree with LN and a lot of people on what should be accomplished, but I'm really scared about losing our rights for the good surfing months (can you imagine not being able to surf in the fall and winter?) I'm a newcomer, so I don't really have a say, but I would be bummed to have to leave the life I'm starting to really love here if we lost the right to surf where we're surfing.

Yup, you don't know whatcha got till it's gone.

As surfers, wanting less restriction, it is my belief that these should be your priorities:

1. Surf anywhere, anytime when lifeguards are off duty (as surfers are no longer considered bathers according to NYS law we can do this now). This means anywhere before 10am and after 6pm.

2. Get Parks Dept. to back off from the whistle/yelling/bullhorn tactics of calling surfers out of the water when a surfer is discovered anywhere out of the "zone".

3. Adding more designated surf areas for summertime use is needed, let surfers surf on beaches where no lifeguard is present (as this does not violate any law according to NYS Health Code).

As for improving quality of beach life for the community:

1. Swim at your own risk. I believe this requires changes in the law and other liability issues (any lawyers out there?).

2. Ticket litterbugs.

3. Ticket people who don't pick up their dog's excrement.

4. New garbage cans, seagullproof.

5. Remove 5,000 houses and 10 apartment buildings, replace with more green space.

6. No vehicles on boardwalk.

That's the answer. ;)

The Rockaway to Long Beach Surf Connection / Re: After Hours?
« on: June 21, 2007, 07:57:27 PM »
Lifeguards can't patrol the surf beach because if a lifeguard is patrolling the beach, then, technically (according to the NYS Health Code) the beach is open to bathing, so surfing wouldn't be allowed because (according to the NYS Health Code) surfers and bathers must be kept separate.

I strongly agree with what PSYCHO said, albeit we might be called selfish by some people, I prefer to see the people leave and have a nice quiet evening on the beach, watching the seagulls pick through the garbage. ;)

What are jtp's and csa's? And Brown shirts are peps and Green Shirts are lower level peps? Both have been placed through p.o.p.?

jtp's are part of the job training program... basically it helps people off of wellfare... a 6 month thing.. if they make it with a good evaluation they get offered a csa position... ( ive fired many of these people they have so many problems and are nothing but drama) ...

csa are a seasoal staff member 6 to 9 month line can be doing almost anything that the city needs them to do... they are no longer part of the pop program and they are the "cream of the crop" so to speak. ( ive fired many of these for the same reaosns)...

the green shirts are usually the csa's ( slightly higher then the jtp peps)...

Can someone please remove all the green m&m's from the jar?

if we're typing up an agenda, then this is what i was thinking about (incorporate and omit as you like):

First a couple of general things to think about:

1.First, DO NO HARM Ė mustnít threaten off-season or surfing altogether.  At the end of the day, I donít want more governance Ė I want freedom.  More rules is generally bad imho.

2.Second, consider whether to pursue incremental change or ideal solution
     a. Incremental is somewhat reactionary but brings quicker results, many small battles in a long war.  Can be quite effective if the end goal isnít too far e.g. Camp Hero
     b. Wholesale change may take awhile to see results, but may be more far-sighted Ė one or two decisive battles.  Maybe better if there are many interdependent issues and complex solutions.
     c. Either way, we canít just bitch.  We have to present an alternative solution.

Then topics that Iíd like to discuss:

1. How do we reach out to the community? And who are we reaching out to?  Are we going to represent surfing interests?  Swimmers?  Fishermen?  All beachgoers?  What is our purpose?

2. Beach access
     a. Opening unguarded beaches to surfing (red flags)
     b. Is surf beach designation the way forward?  Or does it end up pitting surfers against the community and swimmers and those who we displace?
     c. Swimming after hours (at your own risk) Ė maybe we could get the community behind us on this one.

3. Bodyboarding access

4. Framework for working with and registering complaints to City and Parks Dept
     a. Efficient and organized structure presenting a united front behind a clear message and able to mobilize people and resources
     b. Two-way communication
     c. Documentation
          i. Video taping the situation and violations
          ii. 311
          iii. Grievance form or call in/email to Surfrider
          iv. Log book on the beach
          v. We need to find out who is in charge of what?

5. Trash cans

6. Piling markings

7. btw, we should thank the guy on the community board for going to bat for us Ė and Jill for that matter.

Excellent points!

I believe the health code would have to be changed in some way to incorporate a swim at your own risk clause. It seems like that would solve all problems related to the parks dept. regulators.

Boating and water sports are defined differently than surfing.

You should focus on this:
Effective Date:  06/23/2004
Title: Section 6-2.2 - Definitions

6-2.2 Definitions. (a) Bathing beach shall mean a bathing place, together with any buildings and appurtenances, and the water and land areas used in connection therewith, at a pond, lake, stream or other body of fresh or salt water which is used for bathing or swimming with the express or implied permission or consent of the owner or lessee of the premises or which is operated for a fee or any other consideration or which is openly advertised as a place for bathing or swimming.

(d) Bathing shall mean to become partially or totally immersed in water and shall include swimming, wading and diving, but shall exclude fishing, scuba diving and surfboarding.

There is also a regulation that limits the number of bathers per area, per lifeguard, so technically on those hot summer days when a thousand (exaggerated) people are on 1 beach, the city is in violation of the State Health Code.

Here it is:,bather

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