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General New Jersey Surf and New York Surf Discussion Forums => The Rockaway to Long Beach Surf Connection => Topic started by: pefa on June 12, 2007, 01:57:36 PM

Title: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: pefa on June 12, 2007, 01:57:36 PM
to all who are concerned, its time to act.......
lets all get together and organize our ideas/ concerns and what our collective priorities are so we can approach the powers that be with a consice list.
with that, i feel, we will be in a much better position to recieve a more favorable response. what ever their primary concerns and needs are i'm sure can be met and we can all benifit from establishing some concrete framework for handling issues as they arise as an organized group.
aroura and i would be honored to have the community over sometime in the next week or so, whenever works best for the masses.
the sooner we act, the sooner the ball will be rolling towards permanant change for the better- garanteed. its the american way its just up to us to make it happen.
the glass is still half full

......and yes we will be filling glasses and supplying beer and non-alchy drinks, and could fire up the grill ;D
 ;Dheck bring a stick or what have you, if there ar wavos we can walk across the street ;D ;
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: nycwipeout on June 12, 2007, 02:20:41 PM
not sure I can make it, but we definitely have to get these green-kOOks off our ass.

They basically chased me while i paddled down to the 40's - yelling and screaming at me to get out of the water. I ignored them, paddled back to the maon jetty, got a few rides, saw cops in their car questioning some surfers that came out of the water, paddled up to my street and as I was going up the stairs I looked back & saw a cop boat flooring it towards the jetty with it's siren on (no doubt to find me) - WTF?

what are they such nazis? what the hell did I do wrong?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: jscottk on June 12, 2007, 02:31:38 PM
Would our shack be a good meeting place?
Or should we do a morning meeting at the main break.

Lets start small and fiqure out a agenda and and a game plan
What are the goals?
How can we accomplish them?
Who do we talk too in order to educate the Puttputts that the water is the last free liberated area left in the country...
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: little_nasty on June 12, 2007, 02:41:19 PM
nycwo - can you talk on the phone?  PM me your cell if you have a minute
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PSYCHO on June 12, 2007, 03:00:43 PM
WOAH! Talk about Coinsidence!
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: sideways on June 12, 2007, 03:18:53 PM
what the heck is going on exactly?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: seb on June 12, 2007, 03:28:27 PM
i don't know, same brown trout every summer when the frogs try to tell you you can't be in the water while the crapguards aren't on duty, even when you point out it's a year round surfing beach, who trains these dumbasses!...and now cops are boating around chasing guys down??? insanity! I am down for a meet up if you guys have one.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: sir_schadenfreude on June 12, 2007, 03:33:20 PM
I heard them telling people they couldn't even be on the SAND after 6 the other day...WTF?  Is this the keep-people-with-jobs-off-the-beach policy? 
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: nycwipeout on June 12, 2007, 03:40:36 PM
well, as I was paddling into the 60's, there were PLENTY of people on the beach. Notably black people & black parkies who did nothing. there was also plenty of guys on the jetty fishing & they did nothing about that either - the cheif concern was to get me out of the water & they went nuts about it
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: seb on June 12, 2007, 03:45:43 PM
maybe have a "en masse" big meet up at 6pm friday, and take back the beach...whatever happens, let the cops take us out of the water one by one...
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: sideways on June 12, 2007, 03:47:44 PM
Quote
i don't know, same brown trout every summer when the frogs try to tell you you can't be in the water while the crapguards aren't on duty, even when you point out it's a year round surfing beach, who trains these dumbasses!...and now cops are boating around chasing guys down??? insanity! I am down for a meet up if you guys have one.

thats bs. I am definatley down to be part of an organized group so we can get this ish under control.

and on an unrelated note, why is it flat when i am bored at work and can skip out, but when its firing i am busy as hell!?!?!?  its really starting to get to me and i might and i think i might dump in the urinal to help ease the pain.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: jscottk on June 12, 2007, 03:48:26 PM
It has really gotten out of control with them.
It seems all they care about is seeing if there is a situation that might be "ticketable"
They really don't seem to care about making the place safe, just profitable.
Its Ridiculous, Hey Sheriff Brody, Im not your kid...I will go in the water if I want to go in the water..

As for right now, there ae some things that you all can start doing ASAP

Write in clear, non emotional language an incident that has personally happened to you.
Being told to leave, being harrassed over nothing, anything that might have happened this year.

We have one where the Park Sheriff refused to make a call into the parks dept, to let them know that their garbage cans were about to get washed out to sea or buried by the extreme high tied.

"Its not my job to worry about garbage, its my job to write tickets to the guys jumping off the jetty"
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: skSURF on June 12, 2007, 03:51:02 PM
maybe have a "en masse" big meet up at 6pm friday, and take back the beach...whatever happens, let the cops take us out of the water one by one...
The problem with that type of idea is one or two people get pinched and everyone else turns into a jellyfish.
Plus you need media coverage and in the end it could go either way.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: seb on June 12, 2007, 03:56:36 PM
ok someone enlighten me here...is there a law we would be breaking if we surfed at designated beach after 6pm?
the whole point of having a designated surf beach was for this brown trout not to happen, and to no longer be hassled.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_newsroom/video/?key=23
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: skSURF on June 12, 2007, 04:12:44 PM
ok someone enlighten me here...is there a law we would be breaking if we surfed at designated beach after 6pm?
the whole point of having a designated surf beach was for this brown trout not to happen, and to no longer be hassled.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_newsroom/video/?key=23
I don't know the exact details but there is some law that states an officer can order you from the water in the interest of safty and fallure to comply is a misdemeaner. THere is no actuall ticket for surfing.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: frroK on June 12, 2007, 04:16:33 PM
some familiar faces in that little video clip. good on you guys.  ...too bad the waves sucked...and the surfing ...well...i won;t go there.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: SeaCliff on June 12, 2007, 04:22:31 PM
ok someone enlighten me here...is there a law we would be breaking if we surfed at designated beach after 6pm?
the whole point of having a designated surf beach was for this brown trout not to happen, and to no longer be hassled.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_newsroom/video/?key=23
I don't know the exact details but there is some law that states an officer can order you from the water in the interest of safty and fallure to comply is a misdemeaner. THere is no actuall ticket for surfing.

Holy crap! I never even knew that clip existed!  ::)
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: elkisthebastard on June 12, 2007, 04:24:43 PM
ok someone enlighten me here...is there a law we would be breaking if we surfed at designated beach after 6pm?
the whole point of having a designated surf beach was for this brown trout not to happen, and to no longer be hassled.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_newsroom/video/?key=23
I don't know the exact details but there is some law that states an officer can order you from the water in the interest of safty and fallure to comply is a misdemeaner. THere is no actuall ticket for surfing.

Holy crap! I never even knew that clip existed!  ::)

Really?  They re-show it on Cool In Your Code all the time. 

Why don't you guys (or I guess I should say "we") call the Parks guy in that clip.  Is he still at the Parks Department?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: seb on June 12, 2007, 04:28:56 PM
Just googled his name, and his email contacts shows up...I was thinking of writing to him, but was wondering if some more prominent members here might have more weight in the matter than me...ie LN! probably speaks better too...
will gladly sign petition if needed.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PSYCHO on June 12, 2007, 04:42:18 PM
As long as we're on this whole thing I might as well let people know, Ive been having a conversation about this & Im sorry If I offend anyone but I believe there is strength in numbers, I also believe all surfers should have a say as well as some local people too but some dissagree & believe they can speak for a group with out consulting them. whatever, I just want whats best for us all But it is America & dont think that a bunch of people coming from outside the community & telling the local people what to do is the best, working together yes but I would really hope that anyone who does this talks with the loacl surfers & see what theyve already talked about & what they'd ike too. everyone has rights here. its apublic beach but please think about the community around the surfing world as well. better to change their minds the but heads with people who dont understand surfing. Thats just my 2 cents but what do I know? Im just 1 person.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: pefa on June 12, 2007, 05:53:02 PM
but I would really hope that anyone who does this talks with the loacl surfers & see what theyve already talked about & what they'd ike too. everyone has rights here. its apublic beach but please think about the community around the surfing world as well. better to change their minds the but heads with people who dont understand surfing. Thats just my 2 cents but what do I know? Im just 1 person.

i'm doing it, i've got as good of an understanding as anyone & i think i'm local living 100 yards from the break, and i think i've talked and know enough of the surfers & great place to meet in our house right across the street from the break, and the key is TAKING INITIATIVE & MEETING with whoever is interested , offering POSITIVE feedback, and making sh*t happen, so i don't really know your point.
i'm not trying to run or take charge of anything, just get the ball rolling and offer a pyscical forum for all who are interesed to come voice so WE CAN HAVE A UNIFIED front......
sorry, i'm ranting also........
i'm sick of this...
the last straw and this forum is a great place to initiate change, but we get to get out to actually make it happen & happen it MUST.
psycho, i agree w/ your concerns, but thats why i think this would be a good place to it w/ and there is no better way than a meeting with concerned souls, and i'm not going to tell anyone they cant come if they have something POSITIVE to offer

......as for NYCWO getting chased, part of why i'm sooo pissed, he's not the only case- I GOT FDNY, NYPD, ESU, BOAT & CIRCILING HELLICOPTER  JUST OVERHEAD TAKING PICTURES OF ME as i was out for a sunset standup paddle the night before, probably why they were a bit sensitive........ and why i'm wholly pissed off enough to make this a top proirity. imagine if it wasn't so late & i had time to roll up a fatty for when i got out far enough....
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: pefa on June 12, 2007, 07:22:27 PM
one thing i want to make perfectly clear is that i am not trying to lead, control, shape or to take charge or anything like that, or think/ claim i may know or be more righteous to do so...... and i don't want to hear that ' i havn't lived here that long.... or i don't have a history/ experience w/ this or that....' cause it means nothing to me..... lets look forward positively.
anyone can point out all of the proplems or things that are wrong, but offering solutions and taking the necessary steps to follow through is what its all about.
i just want to open the doors to bring people together to come up with a comprehensive list of issues/ proposed solutions,  and a plan of action with some timeframe and i don't care where it is or if anyone wants to take charge-

again, all im concerened with is a better future for OUR COMMUNITY


THIS IS ALSO NOT GOING TO BE A GRIPE SESSION- DON"T JUST COME TO BITCH AND DON"T COME IF YOU DON"T HAVE SOMETHING POSITIVE TO OFFER TO ALL.


Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: seb on June 12, 2007, 08:05:37 PM
Pefa, let's see what the moderators/locals on this board want to do...plus some previous connections with the right poeple to contact might already be in place...we all want the best for everyone, so let's get it together *if* we all feel this is important.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Bacon on June 12, 2007, 08:08:55 PM
well, as I was paddling into the 60's, there were PLENTY of people on the beach. Notably black people & black parkies who did nothing. there was also plenty of guys on the jetty fishing & they did nothing about that either - the cheif concern was to get me out of the water & they went nuts about it

always trying to bring the white man down! 
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: pefa on June 12, 2007, 09:23:23 PM
Pefa, let's see what the moderators/locals on this board want to do...plus some previous connections with the right poeple to contact might already be in place...we all want the best for everyone, so let's get it together *if* we all feel this is important.

first off, we on this board are no where near everone who represents this community and or who are interested, so all i'm interested in doing is getting the ball rolling. maybe we should do it @ the tap were there's more room and more central.
 
second, i'm pretty familiar with local sentiments, unless everyones just been talking sh#t all this time, which i doubt, so feelings are well known- again, i'm just saying lets put up or shut up.
i know many people on my block for example (93rd) who have been surfing/ and or enjoying the beach in any way for longer than most people have been alive on this board, and are just as concerned and willing to do something. there is a solution out there where the vast majority can be much more satisfied with a more sybiotic relationship with the powers.
just an example, central park concervancy, park volunteers, community training outreach for city ee's, etc...
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: nycwipeout on June 12, 2007, 10:02:02 PM
I think most people (hopefully Psycho himself) are still involved in the "town hall meeting' tonight - I couldn't make it unfortunately.

but let me say this for clarity, Psycho was 'discussing' this with another board member which clearly seemed to rank of some misunderstanding (that's my personal view), hence then Psycho posted in here.

So don't take those words to heart Pefa, they weren't directed to you in any way as far as i can discern.

As for a meeting, this is essential. We will need a collective voice of ALL people, not just surfers, but getting the word out there and having a venue to host a lot of people takes time & efforrt. I am more than willing to participate on all levels & to host - but I do propose that those willing to be involved come out and say so & actually put their name down.

Once we meet, discuss and table our concerns, we might want to elect a spokesperson and take it from there. But to be honest & frank, these Parks people have been around the block many more times than you think & the last thing they want is some beligerant local screaming epitaphs in their collective ear. You'll just make them switch off & get negative about a community as a whole.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: 2wordsilivehere on June 12, 2007, 10:17:29 PM
THE GREEN GOBLINS STRIKE!i heard one got fired...for weighing under 300 pounds.whens the meeting?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: sir_schadenfreude on June 13, 2007, 08:27:03 AM
Sooo... It looks like there could be a decent evening session today... is a showdown with the greenies inevitable?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PSYCHO on June 13, 2007, 09:21:11 AM
I think most people (hopefully Psycho himself) are still involved in the "town hall meeting' tonight - I couldn't make it unfortunately.

but let me say this for clarity, Psycho was 'discussing' this with another board member which clearly seemed to rank of some misunderstanding (that's my personal view), hence then Psycho posted in here.

So don't take those words to heart Pefa, they weren't directed to you in any way as far as i can discern.

As for a meeting, this is essential. We will need a collective voice of ALL people, not just surfers, but getting the word out there and having a venue to host a lot of people takes time & efforrt. I am more than willing to participate on all levels & to host - but I do propose that those willing to be involved come out and say so & actually put their name down.

Once we meet, discuss and table our concerns, we might want to elect a spokesperson and take it from there. But to be honest & frank, these Parks people have been around the block many more times than you think & the last thing they want is some beligerant local screaming epitaphs in their collective ear. You'll just make them switch off & get negative about a community as a whole.

Wait there was a town hall meeting last night? If there was, Why wasnt half this messageboard involved, Clued in or called? If there was, Im about to blow it up around here.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: pefa on June 13, 2007, 09:53:27 AM
pyscho, i don't think it even matters about the meeting ( if there even was one) as in my humble opinion, i think we have some work to do to make a better comprehensive presentation, etc......
thomas, you have done soooo much for so long, given back so much, have so many good ideas and we've had some great brainstrming sessions, but if we organize all that and everything else- lets say for example NYHC's experience (pretty much wouldn't be a surfing beach if it wasn't for him) and all the other great people and ideas that have been discussed or not even know yet- we'll be much better armed. also, i like NYCWO's idea of people who want to contribute positively should come out and say so and put their names down or something.....
my 2 cents, and again, i don't want to step on any toes or appear like i'm trying to take control of this isssue, or being a point/ spokesperson at all...... i just want to see some results and i believe there is great potential for the beach going community to exist sybiotically with the beach governing bodies......
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Mims on June 13, 2007, 10:05:09 AM
I believe they have a town meeting the 2nd tuesday of every month. But I'm not 100% on that. I'd imagine they'd announce it in "The Wave" though.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: seb on June 13, 2007, 10:16:46 AM
posted in the callbox thread...here it is as well, maybe a place to regroup on our issues...
>Hi Friends!
>
>Please join me at Rockaway Beach this Saturday, June 16th to help kick
off
>the Barefoot Wine Beach Rescue Project along with the Surfrider
Foundation.
>
>After taking part in a beach clean up (4-6 pm), we'll be treating
>volunteers
>and friends to a celebration at a nearby restaurant/bar where you'll
enjoy
>a
>private performance by Jill Cunniff of Luscious Jackson (6:30 - 9 pm).
>We're making it really easy for you and providing complimentary
shuttle
>service to and from Union Square... Or you can always take the subway.
>
>Please RSVP at http://www.barefootwine.com/beachrescue/rsvp.asp or to
me.
>Feel free to pass this along to others, we're hoping for a positive
turnout
>to leave Rockaway Beach ³barefoot-friendly².
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PSYCHO on June 13, 2007, 10:21:56 AM
I believe they have a town meeting the 2nd tuesday of every month. But I'm not 100% on that. I'd imagine they'd announce it in "The Wave" though.

Yeah they do, I thought it was something different. I'd like to hear how it went. Ive been trying to get a large group of people to go to those meetings for a loooong time & almost no one ever came, NYHC, Hodges have gone but not many surfers have ever showed up. Its kinda over run with other issues. Neighborhood things & the last time I went to one, they didnt care at all about the surfers issues simpley becuase theres just not enough people to get them to listen so I got brushed off easily, Had I known people were going I mightve showed up & added a body to the wall. No worries, Im starting to see others who want to get involved, its growing & theres starting to be more people who want to voice their opinions. I just want them to be cool & take into account that alotta the people who go to these meetings are easily put off to what a surfer would want. I hear it in the bars all the time. They dont want people coming in from the outside & telling them how to live, they get all crazy & form opinions against surfers. They think surfers are gonna steal their lives away or something. I'd like to hear how it went last night tho.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: box on June 13, 2007, 12:08:42 PM
couple days ago a buttload of cyclists/skateboarders rode naked through several european citys to protest dependency on oil & car culture
 "less gas more ass"


i elect psycho to take the lead for this one....SURF NAKED FOR A GOOD CAUSE
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Sandshark on June 13, 2007, 01:43:30 PM
These "town hall meetings" are actually community board meetings.  There are 59 community boards in the City.  Board members are selected by the Borough President.  They have committees, like transportation, land use, safety, etc.  No matter how kooky on these Boards may be, they have weight in that these Boards are recognized by the City.  You want a sidewalk cafe?  Gotta present at the CB.  You want a new dog park?  Present at the CB.  Basically, if you wanna know what's happening in your neighborhood, show up to these monthly public meetings.   City agencies seriously bow down to Community Boards.

I work with a lot of very active community members throughout the City who have organized around issues concerning their neighborhoods.  Some of these people are considered whackos, others are held in high esteem and have done things like establish historic districts, create new parks.  In addition to organizing your friends, fellow surfers, "locals," etc., if you don't show up at Comm Board meetings, the City doesn't really care about you.  Seriously, this is THE way to work within the system.   

CB 14 covers the entire peninsula and public meetings are held on the second Tuesday of every month.

Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Northstreet on June 13, 2007, 02:02:08 PM
(http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/footloose/kevin_bacon/footloose3.jpg)
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PTSD on June 13, 2007, 02:31:14 PM
heres a quote from another thread.

Quote
Anyway, not to bash the pretense of democracy, in theory it's beautiful but it doesn't really work. Well not the idealized form of it that continues to come up. (that's not a flame or a personal attack, sorry if it comes off that way.)

At last nights community board meeting, open to the public, held at the 9oth street K.C., announced on this message board by a well establish R0ckaway Poppa, only 4 surfers showed up. Of the four, 1 showed up late. Even with 4 surfers there none of us signed up to speak to the points that came up around the new surf beach. None of us Thanked in person the elected officials the love to get patted on the back and thanked for a fairly thankless job.

Surfing was a blip, a literal 5 minute blip on the map. The issues they are dealing with are IMHO real issues that have to do with the real community. For as much as we as surfer think we are a part of the community there is sh1t going down in R0ck by Arverne, and Eastern, Mott Ave **** that we don't have a clue of.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: slow_ride on June 13, 2007, 02:31:36 PM
nycwo - can you talk on the phone?  PM me your cell if you have a minute

LN, check your pm's
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PTSD on June 13, 2007, 02:46:10 PM
^That guy is good

Not to diminish the growing community of surfers but really lets be a little more specific when we speak.
Surf community not The Community.

For as much as I can understand the frustration that comes with dealing with politicos because I did that for 10 years of my life as community activist fighting around 2 major and several minor issues in this city, if the sh1t has to get done it has to get done.

In retrospect I would be much less confrontational now then I was in my youth. Spitting in Mayor Guillianis face was probably not the way to go about continuing funds going to the CCRB.

At last nights meeting, I noticed a few issue local surfers could be helpful with. I also notice where tensions lay between east and west R0ckaway. But it's ugly and slow work and someone that has a limited attention span or lacks attention to detail (mostly me) will get bored with building the relationships and trust.

1 person got a 30 year community service award last night another got a 25 year award and  another got a 15 year award. Instant gratification isn't really on their agenda.

Help to get them the things they want and they may listen to you, build a relationship and they will work with you, gain their trust and they will give you what you want the way you want it. It's a long haul thing. Being dismissive isn't the tack to take.

look at me using sailing terms.  ;D   
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: 1s on June 13, 2007, 02:53:13 PM
http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e8525653000661cd6?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing (http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e8525653000661cd6?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing)
http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e85256530006637c8?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing (http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e85256530006637c8?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing)

See letter (d) of the New York State Public Health Code in both links.

One defines surfing {d) Bathing shall mean to become partially or totally immersed in water and shall include swimming, wading and diving, but shall exclude fishing, scuba diving and surfboarding.}
, thus excluding surfing from bathing.

The other link states {(d) No boating, water skiing, fishing, or surfboarding shall be permitted in the bathing area during the hours bathing is allowed. Separate areas for the above activities may be designated by floating lines and buoys.}.

I am not a lawyer but common sense leads me to conclude this:

Surfing is not bathing, therefore exempt from the laws pertaining to bathing at the bathing beaches in Rockaway and all of New York State, especially during times the beaches are closed to bathing (before 10:00am and after 6:00pm). The parkies have no legal right to demand you exit the water for surfing, neither does the NYPD. They can cite other reasons like you are a terrorist threat, etc. and ask you to leave the water for that reason, but not for surfing a NYC Beach during "off" hours.

Even better, since so many beaches are closed to bathing because of lack of lifeguards early in the season, those beaches, according to NYS Health Code, are open to surfing (but not bathing). You are not breaking the law for surfing on a beach without a lifeguard.

Last year I printed out a copy of the NYS Health Code, when hassled got the copy from a zip lock baggy and showed the parkie, if still hassled I requested a Parks Dept. Supervisor to speak to, sometimes they came, and when they did they told the Parkie to make a notation I refused to comply, then I went back surfing.

Hope this is helpful.

NYCWO: The parkies have no legal right to ask you to exit the water if you are on a beach closed to bathing, if you are surfing on a beach open to bathing with a guard on duty this is the only time they have a right to ask you to exit the water.

Don't give in to them, stand your ground, make a copy of the Health Code and use it to your advantage.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PTSD on June 13, 2007, 03:01:09 PM
^ thank you 1's

that was farking great
Thanks
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: frroK on June 13, 2007, 03:25:09 PM
friggin awesome! ...haha did you have one of those waterproof bags in your wetsuit?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Spindrift on June 13, 2007, 04:35:56 PM
Wow, gone from the messageboard for a few days and look at what I missed.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PSYCHO on June 13, 2007, 04:53:43 PM
http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e8525653000661cd6?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing (http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e8525653000661cd6?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing)
http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e85256530006637c8?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing (http://w3.health.state.ny.us/dbspace/NYCRR10.nsf/56cf2e25d626f9f785256538006c3ed7/8525652c00680c3e85256530006637c8?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,bathing)

See letter (d) of the New York State Public Health Code in both links.

One defines surfing {d) Bathing shall mean to become partially or totally immersed in water and shall include swimming, wading and diving, but shall exclude fishing, scuba diving and surfboarding.}
, thus excluding surfing from bathing.

The other link states {(d) No boating, water skiing, fishing, or surfboarding shall be permitted in the bathing area during the hours bathing is allowed. Separate areas for the above activities may be designated by floating lines and buoys.}.

I am not a lawyer but common sense leads me to conclude this:

Surfing is not bathing, therefore exempt from the laws pertaining to bathing at the bathing beaches in *far western LI* and all of New York State, especially during times the beaches are closed to bathing (before 10:00am and after 6:00pm). The parkies have no legal right to demand you exit the water for surfing, neither does the NYPD. They can cite other reasons like you are a terrorist threat, etc. and ask you to leave the water for that reason, but not for surfing a NYC Beach during "off" hours.

Even better, since so many beaches are closed to bathing because of lack of lifeguards early in the season, those beaches, according to NYS Health Code, are open to surfing (but not bathing). You are not breaking the law for surfing on a beach without a lifeguard.

Last year I printed out a copy of the NYS Health Code, when hassled got the copy from a zip lock baggy and showed the parkie, if still hassled I requested a Parks Dept. Supervisor to speak to, sometimes they came, and when they did they told the Parkie to make a notation I refused to comply, then I went back surfing.

Hope this is helpful.

NYCWO: The parkies have no legal right to ask you to exit the water if you are on a beach closed to bathing, if you are surfing on a beach open to bathing with a guard on duty this is the only time they have a right to ask you to exit the water.

Don't give in to them, stand your ground, make a copy of the Health Code and use it to your advantage.

Thats what Im talkin about. Noice!
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: nycwipeout on June 13, 2007, 05:00:43 PM
yeah, good report 1's

this is what I posted in another thread on the same topic:

One thing I proposed ages ago is built on beach safety issues in regards to the lifeguards being in control. Similar to what PY stated, but it's like this: The Lifeguards designate a swimming area by flags where there are no rip currents or other dangers or submersable jetties. At any time through the day those flags can move for safety concerns (currents develpoing from tidal changes or swell increasing). The public may only swin between those flags - nowhere else! Now there maybe 10 sets of flags in a half mile of beach, that is fine, but it allows the lifguards to also have better management of the people swimming. I really believe that there would be significantly less deaths at R0ck because you could have 3 lifeguards patrolling one flagged area rather that one kid on the tower scoping an 1/8 or 1/16 of a mile stretch of beach. Soft surfcraft is also permitted in between the flagged areas. Now, where there are no flags this is free for use to all other "surfcraft"

It's a pretty simple plan and it avoids a designated "surf" area. It should be the otherway around - designated "swimming" areas for personal safety.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: 1s on June 13, 2007, 06:38:00 PM
NYCWO: Your plan sounds good. Simply allow the lifeguard (or chief lifeguard) to decide what beaches are safe to open for swimming. Unfortunately there are some issues with that approach, but it's how it should be.

I agree that separating the swimmers from the surfers is a good idea, but don't hassle surfers who are surfing at any hour on beaches not open to bathing.

I think a swim at your own risk clause in the NYS Health Code would eliminate most of the problems with the parkies trying to enforce the law.

The NYS Health code is black and white, law, plain and simple. A parkie cannot simply take it upon themselves to invent laws or change laws, that's what has to be communicated to the Parks Dept.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Årne Longbörgenssen on June 13, 2007, 06:50:35 PM
NYCWO: The parkies have no legal right to ask you to exit the water if you are on a beach closed to bathing, if you are surfing on a beach open to bathing with a guard on duty this is the only time they have a right to ask you to exit the water.

Don't give in to them, stand your ground, make a copy of the Health Code and use it to your advantage.

thats great advice. you found something in the health code, and based on that (as opposed to all the other written regs that parks and nypd follow) you're advising someone to risk getting arrested, have to pay a fine, take time out form their family, work to fight it. are you going to pay his legal fees and fines, or make up his wages if he gets docked or fired.

clarence effing darrow
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Adam on June 13, 2007, 08:26:16 PM
enough talk you guys got me riledup i say we start rioting &  looting now.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Spindrift on June 13, 2007, 09:55:26 PM
tat2 you forgot about the raping part. that's where all the fun is! raping and pillaging.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Mims on June 13, 2007, 10:08:12 PM
I guess it's time to work up a "Number 6".  ::)
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: little_nasty on June 14, 2007, 12:50:54 AM
Thank you pefa for taking such a positive proactive initiative on this and helping to bring the community together.   Huge props.  I will try to be there and help in any way possible.

Dakook and I spoke with the parks administrator about the incident with you and nycwo.  I would like to share that with the group whenever a meeting is scheduled.  I also talked with BB, Seacliff and Dakook afterwards over beers and they had some great ideas that I think could be immediately implemented if we handle it correctly.  I would defer to them to explain the ideas at the meeting.

Thank you 1s for your help on the bathing regs issue.  Your interpretation is the same as mine when I first read the language.  I think a call may be put in to attorneys with specific knowledge about the statutes and their interpretation, and hopefully we can arm our surfers with the best information possible.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: nycwipeout on June 14, 2007, 08:23:51 AM
Hey Bubba, want represent us?  ;D

anyway, i asked in the other thread:
how about we meet in the back room at the T&G next tuesday at 7pm
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: SeaCliff on June 14, 2007, 09:45:05 AM

how about we meet in the back room at the T&G next tuesday at 7pm

Great suggestion, I'm all for it..I hope to be there that evening, if possible!

Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Crackie Onassis on June 14, 2007, 02:19:58 PM
Unless "No Logs in the Box" is opened up for serious consideration, then I'm gonna pass.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: sir_schadenfreude on June 14, 2007, 02:30:19 PM
BTW, today was ALL logs in the box...
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: waterwolfnyc on June 14, 2007, 02:45:10 PM
Quote
......as for NYCWO getting chased, part of why i'm sooo pissed, he's not the only case- I GOT FDNY, NYPD, ESU, BOAT & CIRCILING HELLICOPTER  JUST OVERHEAD TAKING PICTURES OF ME as i was out for a sunset standup paddle the night before, probably why they were a bit sensitive........ quote]

People, can't you see that they are worried someone will attempt to shoot down an incomoing plane from the water?

you know how them surfboard bags look like rocket launchers

a surfer standning up on a paddle board with a paddle makes them sh*t their pants

there has to be a way around this
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: 1s on June 14, 2007, 06:06:54 PM
NYCWO: The parkies have no legal right to ask you to exit the water if you are on a beach closed to bathing, if you are surfing on a beach open to bathing with a guard on duty this is the only time they have a right to ask you to exit the water.

Don't give in to them, stand your ground, make a copy of the Health Code and use it to your advantage.

thats great advice. you found something in the health code, and based on that (as opposed to all the other written regs that parks and nypd follow) you're advising someone to risk getting arrested, have to pay a fine, take time out form their family, work to fight it. are you going to pay his legal fees and fines, or make up his wages if he gets docked or fired.

clarence effing darrow

What law was he violating? People can't simply try to enforce a law that doesn't exist. The NYS Health Code is the written law, how can the NYPD or Parks Dept. try to enforce a law that doesn't exist? I have on numerous occasions asked to speak with a Parks supervisor after being confronted by the parkie, everything worked out fine, they do get pushy but you have to stand your ground and state that you're not violating any regulation, then they make a notation that you refused to exit the water, and they drive on.

If someone gets arrested/cited for surfing a beach during "off" hours or a beach closed to bathing what law are they violating? Let them arrest the person, all that person has to do is answer to the charge with written law. Take a day off from work and go to court, just like people do to go surfing, take a day to stand up for something you love to do. We're not going to stop, right?

I'm still curious as to why the hoopla, what did the person do wrong? What law was violated?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Spindrift on June 14, 2007, 06:18:43 PM
Classic Hodges! I'm gonna be out of town getting home late Monday night. I dunno if I can make it or not. We'll see.

Unless "No Logs in the Box" is opened up for serious consideration, then I'm gonna pass.

Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: little_nasty on June 18, 2007, 02:29:22 PM
So what's the deal?  Is there a meeting tomorrow night?  Who's in?
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: PSYCHO on June 18, 2007, 02:51:47 PM
Yall know Im in. we shouldve done this a long time ago. Just to sit as a group of concerned citizens on Safety. its a start for people to at least get on the same Page. Its not about who owns the beach, or who surfs where or what board ya ride, its about organising into a collective agenda that suits the entire community as a whole both in & out of the water. The Parks department is just completely ignorant to the workings of how a surf community is treated or how to organize it and run it successfully. theyre view is nothing less the a beginner stepping into the water for the very 1rst time coming from somewhere in middle America. They see it as more of kids play rather then a lifestyle & they have no clue what it means to us.

We should all listen to each other about whats best for he surf beach. Like our need for a lifeguard, the lack of support for a safe beach, the need for more beaches, Clear & present signs, teaching the Parkies about the culture before the summer starts. The Garbage factor on the beach things like that. We need to enlighten them & show them what it is that is important to a healthy surf and beach environment, not just half azz stuff to make it look like they care but actualy give them the tools & stay on them weekly if need be. This isnt a hanging or a Biatch session, its a way to organize our thoughts so that we can do what it takes to make R0ck the same as any other public beach from here to Cali. If we can do this tactfully, who knows what can come of it but if ya sit on your booty, lay around think someone else will do it or I dont know if i'll get what I wnat then dont expect much to ever change. If you surf here, you owe it to the community and yourself to get involved. Its all coming to a head & before some innocent kid gets hurt & thyey try to black ball us out of surfing entireely, please come to this thing.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: Crackie Onassis on June 18, 2007, 02:53:33 PM
I'll do my best.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: seb on June 18, 2007, 08:48:32 PM
same here, should be able to make it.
Title: Re: SURF COMMUNITY MEETING
Post by: pefa on June 18, 2007, 09:15:43 PM
Yall know Im in. we shouldve done this a long time ago. Just to sit as a group of concerned citizens on Safety. its a start for people to at least get on the same Page. Its not about who owns the beach, or who surfs where or what board ya ride, its about organising into a collective agenda that suits the entire community as a whole both in & out of the water. The Parks department is just completely ignorant to the workings of how a surf community is treated or how to organize it and run it successfully. theyre view is nothing less the a beginner stepping into the water for the very 1rst time coming from somewhere in middle America. They see it as more of kids play rather then a lifestyle & they have no clue what it means to us.

We should all listen to each other about whats best for he surf beach. Like our need for a lifeguard, the lack of support for a safe beach, the need for more beaches, Clear & present signs, teaching the Parkies about the culture before the summer starts. The Garbage factor on the beach things like that. We need to enlighten them & show them what it is that is important to a healthy surf and beach environment, not just half azz stuff to make it look like they care but actualy give them the tools & stay on them weekly if need be. This isnt a hanging or a Biatch session, its a way to organize our thoughts so that we can do what it takes to make R0ck the same as any other public beach from here to Cali. If we can do this tactfully, who knows what can come of it but if ya sit on your booty, lay around think someone else will do it or I dont know if i'll get what I wnat then dont expect much to ever change. If you surf here, you owe it to the community and yourself to get involved. Its all coming to a head & before some innocent kid gets hurt & thyey try to black ball us out of surfing entireely, please come to this thing.


.......you da man thomasito
hope to see you all tomorrow night