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General New Jersey Surf and New York Surf Discussion Forums => Main Room - General New York Surf and New Jersey Surf Discussions => Topic started by: SeaCliff on January 18, 2014, 12:37:48 PM

Title: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: SeaCliff on January 18, 2014, 12:37:48 PM
Tough call!


Who's the Kook ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOqMJBs5ZcI#)
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Smith St. Surfer on January 18, 2014, 12:58:24 PM
Oh that's good.  Very tough call.




The clue for me is right after the collision.  Look how the wave itself peters out.  That means there's a deep water channel 10 yards to the left of the guy paddling up the face of the wave and he should have been either in that or paddling towards it.   



That said the guy on the wave clearly should have taken a high line.  If you can't make a cutty around someone, don't try it. 

Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: RonnieO on January 18, 2014, 01:01:17 PM
Kook: guy who was paddling out


Do everything you can to get outta the way of the guy on the wave. That simple. 100% of the time.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: seb on January 18, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
Looks like he was checking his spray...
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: thanks_table on January 18, 2014, 01:20:39 PM
Looks like the rider had a lot of room to maneuver around the paddler... Simple high-line would have worked, or he could have even pulled off. The paddler was clearly in the way and cut the guy's line off, but the rider was the more fucked up party here.

Surf etiquette aside, basic human etiquette dictates you shouldn't slam into another person with a huge dangerous longboard- regardless of how clueless the person might be. A regular wave surfed purely for fun isn't worth fin stabbing someone's eyeball out.

I guess technically that makes the rider more of an asshole than a kook though...

Kook = Paddler
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: MikeM on January 18, 2014, 01:26:46 PM
Rider was the kook, he wasn't reading the water.  He could have dropped down around him and made the next section. 
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: nydubstar on January 18, 2014, 03:08:31 PM
terrible bottom turn by the guy surfing and downhill from there...both at fault


lose the leash, as well...
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Kdropin on January 18, 2014, 03:20:57 PM
Rider..learn how to surf..he had plenty of wave to work with. It wasn't critical like he was stuck and didn't have an out..high line would have been my call but he could have straightened out and did a Lil bottom turn..he was riding plenty of foam
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Looseness on January 18, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
I for the most part agree the rider could have dealt better with the situation {though maybe not since he looks to have poor control} even though the paddler put himself in a bad/wrong position, BUT the paddler threw his board up the wave at the last second which caused the crash. It would have been close but if the paddler hadn't thrown the board UP THE FACE, rider would have cleared him.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Looseness on January 18, 2014, 06:44:36 PM
I've seen this defensive board throwing when I've been coming down the line  towards someone but have it totally covered. They panic and chuck the board at you or turn it lengthways to me and effectively take up 9 feet of wave area so it's difficult to NOT hit them. So far I've managed to straighten off though and not hit em.....
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: JayI on January 18, 2014, 07:59:39 PM
Guy paddling = kook. He should've been paddling towards the foam or further in the channel. Obviously he wasn't paying attention.

But I can also agree the rider could've went around him. 1st kook= paddler, 2nd kook= surfer
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: CJsurf on January 18, 2014, 08:32:35 PM
Clearly it is the rider in the video who is the kook.  Its clear from the time he gets to his feet he lacks basic skills.  Is he blind to not see the paddler ahead of him?  Perhaps a visit to the eye doctor is in order???  People like that piss me off especially when there are groms in the water.  You as a rider are responsible for where you go and you must maintain at least basic control over your direction.  This kook doesn't belong surfing around other humans.  He should be way down the beach all by himself.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: the Kook on January 18, 2014, 08:38:54 PM
Sorry to break it to all of you, but I did not appear anywhere in that video. 
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: sman on January 19, 2014, 08:42:21 AM
I've put more effort on the toilet than the paddler made to get out of way.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: ankleslapper on January 19, 2014, 08:55:42 AM
looks like paddler is holding (and telegraphing) to give rider room to go around (paddler doesn't even seem to be in rider's best 'line'?).  Rider could have held higher or zipped around paddler's tail with minimal effort -- wonder if rider was trying to prove a point.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Northstreet on January 19, 2014, 09:05:13 AM
The paddler might have been wrong, but the rider should have done the moral thing and easily avoided the bouy.  If you can't avoid a person or 12 at NSSS you will get hurt or inflict pain.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Bru on January 19, 2014, 12:51:00 PM
BOTH ARE KOOKS but the paddler takes the prize, definitely. Directly in the line of fire, doesn't even try to paddle a stroke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: SurfeRoss on January 19, 2014, 03:16:06 PM
According to surf code, it's the rider. You should always be able to pick a line around paddlers, and if you can't you should bail until you are good enough. Your ride is never worth running someone over.


Although, I agree that paddlers are obligated to try a little harder.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Patches O'houlihan on January 19, 2014, 03:16:28 PM
The one having the most fun?
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: snaggletooth on January 19, 2014, 06:06:55 PM
kdropin and cjsurf said it right. the guy could barely get to his feet. why the f*** was he running out onto the shoulder, he should have been cutting back ages ago. the paddler gave the guy plenty of room. it's scary surfing around people who surf like the rider - you can't guess where they're going to go. if the paddler had moved towards the foam, a normal surfer would have done a little snap onto his head.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: adamlesper on January 19, 2014, 06:57:33 PM
Both kooks but the rider's fault seems to be that he wasnt skilled enough to change his line to avoid the paddler while the paddler was just totally lost out there.  Harder to fault someone for lack of skill than for lack of awareness. 


I agree that as a rider you have to do all and anything in your power to avoid a collision. That rider was lucky he got and stayed on his feet, making a quick decision and changing his line is way out of his range.



Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Bru on January 19, 2014, 09:25:35 PM
Hmm...yes perhaps you've got a point.  Being in control is a precondition to surfing anywhere near other riders. 


Just a bit of a pet peeve when floaters sit there like driftwood.  One can generally be avoided, but sometimes it's two.  I'll paddle like blazes if I might be in the way...doesn't seem like much to ask.  When others do it for me it's really appreciated.


Great video in any case - gives plenty ammo to both sides.  I'm sticking to my "double kook" story.  ;)
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Kyle on January 20, 2014, 12:50:11 AM
That is so messed up. Good thing the buoy ditched his board before impact. That was going to be a serious beheading.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Crackie Onassis on January 20, 2014, 08:07:58 AM
I was told at a young age by one of NJs best ever, "don't move, I'll go around." A few years ago, almost got skewered by Brooklyn Benny using same tactic. Lesson learned was that different rules apply in different situations. You are never safe when surfing with adult beginners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: snaggletooth on January 20, 2014, 08:24:56 AM
because i'd prefer to procrastinate this morning, i watched the video again. i had been so focused on how kooky the rider was from the time he got to his feet that i hadn't noticed the paddler was just standing there. and then turned their board into the rider. i had imagined a normal paddler just cruising out into the line-up, in which case any normal person would have expected the guy not to run out onto the shoulder like he did. i take it back though, the paddler was sort of floating sideways on the inside. i can't believe i just wasted a couple minutes watching that and posting this....
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: CJsurf on January 20, 2014, 09:08:01 AM
Any competent surfer would have easily avoided the stationary paddler.  To hit that paddler you'd either have to be trying to run him down or you'd have to be a complete kook.  No excuse for this rider.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: waterboy on January 21, 2014, 12:59:07 AM
While unfortunate and understandable, the rules are very clear on this matter.  the guy paddling out is in the wrong.  he should have went to the white water.   easy to say though haha.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: CJsurf on January 21, 2014, 07:09:29 AM
What rule says it's ok to run out of control way out onto the shoulder and run over a stationary person in the water???  :o
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Kdropin on January 21, 2014, 01:35:31 PM
What rule says it's ok to run out of control way out onto the shoulder and run over a stationary person in the water???  :o
Seriously id flip is someone had that much wave to work with and that much time to avoid and then basically squared me up and cut me in two
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: IslandStyle on January 21, 2014, 09:56:18 PM
The rider is the kook! He had all the room in the world to go around the paddler, hi or low. There is only so much speed and maneuverability a paddler has, it is the riders responsibility not to run over others in the water when it is absolutely avoidable, such as in this case. A wave is not worth endangering someone's health and well being. Too many factors that could have put that paddler in that section of the wave, not just poor entry point selection. We here, in the land of the beach break, should understand that better than most. I don't see the paddler throwing his board at all. If you look closer you will see that all he did was try to roll his board to put something between him and the rider to protect himself when he realized that this bonehead was heading straight at him. Can't fault him for that. There have been plenty of good waves I have had to bail on or let go by due to there being too many speed bumps being in the way to safely maneuver around.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Straight Dave on January 22, 2014, 11:29:40 AM
Man, both are really negligent and have no business surfing around others. Gun to my head, I'd have to say that the fact that the guy up and riding had so much wave to work with and still squared the paddler up and T-boned him/her, has to tip the scales to him being the bigger kook. I get what you all are saying about his awful skills as evidenced by his brown trout bottom turn, but you see him climb the face and then set a line, which leads me to believe that even his modest amount of skill could have easily allowed him to avoid the paddler. It looks almost intentional. Maybe they had words earlier and the rider just decided F it; I'm going to prove a point.


Hard to defend the COMPLETE lack of effort to get out of the way on the part of the paddler, though. Not only is he not paddling when he comes into the frame, but there's no disturbed water surface or any other indication that he'd been paddling prior to coming into the frame. Where the hell was this filmed? I need to cross it off my list of places to paddle out.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: seb on January 22, 2014, 11:42:06 AM
I see the rider turning his head back twice...first to look at the guys that also paddled for the wave, second when he "sets" his line (or attempts a top turn) to check his spray...by the time he looks forward again, BOOM....he never saw the buoy in front of him.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: ankleslapper on January 22, 2014, 07:12:07 PM
I think the paddler was frozen -- stunned by how bad the rider is. (you know he thinks he threw a gigantic top turn)  When paddler came to, it was too late -- so he/she bailed.  Better to slice foam than flesh, I guess.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Årne Longbörgenssen on January 22, 2014, 07:28:16 PM
Here's why the rider is the bigger kook: because he either didn't have the skill to avoid the paddler, or did have the skill and didn't try.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: waterboy on January 27, 2014, 03:42:15 PM
What rule says it's ok to run out of control way out onto the shoulder and run over a stationary person in the water???  :o
Seriously id flip is someone had that much wave to work with and that much time to avoid and then basically squared me up and cut me in two

I agree he could have avoided the paddler  (if he was good enough to).  I dont think its that drastic.  things happen fast.  the guy was on the wave,  now we are supposed to insist he surfs it impeccably rather than get out of his way?   the rule favors the latter.  its the surfers wave to do whatever he wants on it.  even if that means kook out.  its a harsh truth.  i agree, there is a grey area, but i prefer hard lines on rules.  we cant have exceptions.  you either give the surfer the wave or not.  agreed?  i mean, how do you explain this to newbies.  "always go for the white water, but its ok for you to paddle on someones wave if you think they are a good surfer and can surf around you?".    no.   more like always go for the white water.  full stop.  yes no?
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Straight Dave on January 27, 2014, 08:33:34 PM
What rule says it's ok to run out of control way out onto the shoulder and run over a stationary person in the water???  :o
Seriously id flip is someone had that much wave to work with and that much time to avoid and then basically squared me up and cut me in two

I agree he could have avoided the paddler  (if he was good enough to).  I dont think its that drastic.  things happen fast.  the guy was on the wave,  now we are supposed to insist he surfs it impeccably rather than get out of his way?   the rule favors the latter.  its the surfers wave to do whatever he wants on it.  even if that means kook out.  its a harsh truth.  i agree, there is a grey area, but i prefer hard lines on rules.  we cant have exceptions.  you either give the surfer the wave or not.  agreed?  i mean, how do you explain this to newbies.  "always go for the white water, but its ok for you to paddle on someones wave if you think they are a good surfer and can surf around you?".    no.   more like always go for the white water.  full stop.  yes no?


I respectfully disagree. Surfing etiquette does not trump basic human decency. That is to say, if you can avoid inflicting major bodily harm on your fellow man, kook or otherwise, you do so even if that means you have to straighten out, kick out prematurely, or do any number of other things that avoid colliding with said person. Anyone who thinks its OK to run someone over without making an effort not to has obviously never suffered a fin gash. It sucks to see a good wave go by that you had a good line on but surfboards can hurt people... Badly. I'm not saying the paddler was right... But he didn't deserve to get blasted like that either.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Kdropin on January 27, 2014, 09:12:36 PM
What rule says it's ok to run out of control way out onto the shoulder and run over a stationary person in the water???  :o
Seriously id flip is someone had that much wave to work with and that much time to avoid and then basically squared me up and cut me in two

I agree he could have avoided the paddler  (if he was good enough to).  I dont think its that drastic.  things happen fast.  the guy was on the wave,  now we are supposed to insist he surfs it impeccably rather than get out of his way?   the rule favors the latter.  its the surfers wave to do whatever he wants on it.  even if that means kook out.  its a harsh truth.  i agree, there is a grey area, but i prefer hard lines on rules.  we cant have exceptions.  you either give the surfer the wave or not.  agreed?  i mean, how do you explain this to newbies.  "always go for the white water, but its ok for you to paddle on someones wave if you think they are a good surfer and can surf around you?".    no.   more like always go for the white water.  full stop.  yes no?
Could you imagine this ridiculous mindset at a place like rincon during the latest run of swell out there? There would be a hundred people run over easy...surfers change there path/line constantly to avoid other surfers..it's even beneficial sometimes to use said paddler as a marker to initiate turns and give them a shower of spray
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: CJsurf on January 28, 2014, 07:39:13 AM
To say paddle for the whitewater in this instance doesn't make sense.  Did you watch the same video I was watching?  The paddler was so far out on the shoulder in this case that there was no way to paddle for the whitewater. 
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Smith St. Surfer on February 03, 2014, 06:31:31 PM
New vid for this thread.  Yes we know the guy on SUP who doesn't make it is the kook.  But then again he does have position and the balls to commit.  Tell me how Jaime Mitchel makes that?

Jamie Mitchell experiences a close encounter. on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/85612884)
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Straight Dave on February 03, 2014, 08:48:24 PM
New vid for this thread.  Yes we know the guy on SUP who doesn't make it is the kook.  But then again he does have position and the balls to commit.  Tell me how Jaime Mitchel makes that?

Jamie Mitchell experiences a close encounter. on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/85612884)


Not being a big wave Hellman, I can only go off of what I've heard them say when interviewed, and that is typically something like "when you decide that you're going and you're that deep, you're totally committed and can't back down". seems so dangerous to me. A board the size of those guns being thrown by the lip of a wave at Mavericks could seriously F you up.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: Patches O'houlihan on February 03, 2014, 11:24:24 PM
This thread is too funny
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: CJsurf on February 04, 2014, 06:52:34 AM
Clearly the SUPer is the kook as they have no rights in a lineup of surfers.


On a separate note I don't know how these big wave guys do it going two and three at a time on a wave.  To me that seems more dangerous than the wave itself.
Title: Re: Who's the kook? (Vid - click to view!)
Post by: onefinookas on February 04, 2014, 10:03:30 AM
New vid for this thread.  Yes we know the guy on SUP who doesn't make it is the kook.  But then again he does have position and the balls to commit.  Tell me how Jaime Mitchel makes that?

Jamie Mitchell experiences a close encounter. on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/85612884)


Does it change things if the guy on the SUP is Jeff Clark?  Not positive its him, but I know he favors the SUP out there these days.