Author Topic: Why Attack Success?  (Read 2584 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NJ Longboarder

  • Local Access
  • Local Hero (Platinum)
  • ***
  • Posts: 1365
  • Liked: 36
  • Soft hated: 2
  • Karma: +3/-3
  • OS:
  • Windows XP Windows XP
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
    • View Profile
    • Email
Why Attack Success?
« on: August 07, 2012, 09:58:30 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • I am not very political and am still forming my opinion on the election, but one thing has me puzzled.  Romney in a recent interview made a comment about people attacking success and dividing the country.  I forget the exact quote, but it was something along those lines.  Regardless of what side you are on, it made me think.

    Growing up for me, it was always "Work hard and you can better yourself and your family".  I know I will never have millions in the bank, but I know if work hard I can improve my financial situation.   Is this no longer the case?  If someone works hard and make a few extra bucks along the way, does that make them a "bad" person?   There are still a lot of legit, ethical, caring, hard working and successful business men and women out there. 



    Offline snaggletooth

    • Wahine
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 4529
    • Liked: 133
    • Soft hated: 7
    • Karma: +18/-9
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 8.0 MS Internet Explorer 8.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 10:07:23 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • work hard and you may be able to just keep your head above water.... world has changed. oh, if you have a decent education, you are an elitist snob.

    Offline snaggletooth

    • Wahine
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 4529
    • Liked: 133
    • Soft hated: 7
    • Karma: +18/-9
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 8.0 MS Internet Explorer 8.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 10:14:01 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • by the way, it's way more fun to attack hipsters than to attack success.

    Offline BOB

    • Local (Gold)
    • ****
    • Posts: 510
    • Liked: 29
    • Soft hated: 3
    • Karma: +3/-4
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 10:29:13 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • Its simple marketing. If you are selling a product or a politician to Americans, you'll want to appeal mainly to their emotions and envy is an extremely powerful emotion. And when someone as successful as a Romney comes along, someone worked hard and made good decisions -- but who didn't take any real risk to make his money -- there are a lot of Americans from ALL points in the economic spectrum who are in a position to envy a guy like that.

    Offline Northstreet

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 3472
    • Liked: 71
    • Soft hated: 3
    • Karma: +101/-101
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 8.0 MS Internet Explorer 8.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 10:34:23 AM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • If Romney's wealth can be defined as "success" then it makes perfect sense to accuse people of attacking him as attacking "success".  Both political parties are feeling out the ideological climate right now to see what message will resonate with the public.  Do we hate rich people because we are in a recession?  Or do we love them even more because of it?   Culturally, it can go either way....in the Great Depression, many popular films focused on the glamourous lives of the rich...

    Offline Badfish

    • SFSC
    • Local (Gold)
    • ****
    • Posts: 719
    • Liked: 60
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +23/-18
    • The Forgotten Sandflea
    • OS:
    • Windows XP Windows XP
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
      • Email
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 12:48:48 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • I don't think many people are against success. I think many people are against a system that is rigged to further success among the successful while making it more difficult for members of other socio-economic statuses to attain it (eg. tax rates, educational opportunities, etc - the list probably begins at tax rates and continues as far as one wants to take it). Jon Stewart has probably been one of the best I've seen in explaining this.

    With that said, it's both a blessing and a curse that he's the host of a comedy show and that he eschews the idea that he's anything but a comedian and satirist. His (and, the show's) points are often highly nuanced when they actually try to make a point instead of going for a low-ball joke and they're level of investigation in their reporting seems better than every major news station (ie. finding earlier clips to point out hypocrisy of politicians, I remember them breaking the story of Bobby Jindal stating that he would refuse stimulus money but in reality he used it while putting his name on giant checks  and The DS breakign this about 2 days before other networks picked it up).
    Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality. - Bertrand Russell

    Offline jscottk

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 1400
    • Liked: 132
    • Soft hated: 4
    • Karma: +11/-5
    • OS:
    • Mac OS X 10.6 Mac OS X 10.6
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 01:22:51 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
      Gore Vidal 
    Unfortunately he is asking the people who he helped fail , to elect him.


    If he succeeded from middle class roots to where he is, even with Bane and overseas jobs and whatever..I could understand
    But he was born with the silver spoon firmly planted in his mouth, political Dad, rich parents on all sides, never has or seemingly even tired to understand what being hungry or having no safety catch means..He has taken that golden goose and killed it, ate it, and sh*t it out..on us.

    Oh wait I just described Bush Jr..

    Basically elect him and you can have the same crooked businessmen run the country it again..




    ..Whore it to death then sell the corpse on Craigslist... (used to be Ebay but eff Ebay and Paypal)

    Online RayG

    • Hoon
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • *
    • Posts: 5133
    • Liked: 189
    • Soft hated: 10
    • Karma: +87/-85
    • OS:
    • Windows XP Windows XP
    • Browser:
    • Chrome 21.0.1180.60 Chrome 21.0.1180.60
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 01:29:14 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • because if you attack the poor, you look like a dick. "Don't be a dick" - Wil Wheaton
    Sent from Coleco Vision NEC Zilog Z80A CPU

    Offline snaggletooth

    • Wahine
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 4529
    • Liked: 133
    • Soft hated: 7
    • Karma: +18/-9
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 8.0 MS Internet Explorer 8.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 02:00:44 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • Bane



    hahaha - that's a great freudian slip.

    Offline NJ Longboarder

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 1365
    • Liked: 36
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +3/-3
    • OS:
    • Windows XP Windows XP
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
      • Email
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 03:12:12 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • I don't understand the tax rate debate.  People with more income start at a higher tax rate but then are able to claim a boatload of deductions so they are taxed less.  They still pay significantly more total dollars in taxes, but it ends up being a lower percentage.  I would love a flat tax rate with no deductions, but that would be completely unfair.  Only real answer there is to change the deductions and close loopholes. 

    If they fix all the tax code issues, do you think by someone else paying more, you will pay less?  Or will the government just find a way to spend more money?

    Offline Badfish

    • SFSC
    • Local (Gold)
    • ****
    • Posts: 719
    • Liked: 60
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +23/-18
    • The Forgotten Sandflea
    • OS:
    • Windows XP Windows XP
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
      • Email
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 03:48:43 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • I hardly think I'll pay less. In fact, I wouldn't be against my own taxes being raised (I come no where near to making 6 figures either) and I'm also in favor of changing deductions and closing loopholes as well as reinstituting the capital gains tax but that's just me.

    Your second paragraph is a false dilemma (probably made in conjecture) but regardless of that, for me, I've no problem with the government finding a way to spend more money so long as it positively effects the populous.

    Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality. - Bertrand Russell

    Online RayG

    • Hoon
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • *
    • Posts: 5133
    • Liked: 189
    • Soft hated: 10
    • Karma: +87/-85
    • OS:
    • Windows XP Windows XP
    • Browser:
    • Chrome 21.0.1180.60 Chrome 21.0.1180.60
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 03:54:33 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • Flat tax of 11% for everyone would have us in the black in no time. No deductions, no loopholes. If someone makes 1,000,000, he pays 110,000. someone making 22,000 would pay their 2250 or whatever. Corporations, etc.. would pay flat percentage as well. What %? well that would be worked out. The people opposed would likely work for the IRS because they wouldn't need to write 14,000 page tax codes and they would be out of work. Here's my version:


    "Income:________: You owe 11% of that."


    no refund checks- it is deducted and put right into the fund. No filing in April, either.








    Sent from Coleco Vision NEC Zilog Z80A CPU

    Offline NJ Longboarder

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 1365
    • Liked: 36
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +3/-3
    • OS:
    • Windows XP Windows XP
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
      • Email
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 04:15:28 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • 11%?  I'll take it, where do I sign up?  That flat tax rate is way too low. 

    Quick research on the interwebs (so it must be true) on taxes for 2011
    Romney paid 14.5% on $21 million for a tax bill of $3.0 million
    Obama paid 20.5% on $790k  for a tax bill of $163k. 

    It is shocking to me that the President of the United States makes so little in the grand scheme of things.  He would make more money as a cast member on the Jersey Shore. 


    Offline snaggletooth

    • Wahine
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 4529
    • Liked: 133
    • Soft hated: 7
    • Karma: +18/-9
    • OS:
    • Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 Windows 7/Server 2008 R2
    • Browser:
    • MS Internet Explorer 8.0 MS Internet Explorer 8.0
      • View Profile
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 04:24:07 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • jesus, i'd take either of their tax rates. i'm getting hosed. if a lot of your income doesn't come from carry or dividends or capital gains, meaning you just make regular income, it sucks. 11% is a wet dream.

    Offline NJ Longboarder

    • Local Access
    • Local Hero (Platinum)
    • ***
    • Posts: 1365
    • Liked: 36
    • Soft hated: 2
    • Karma: +3/-3
    • OS:
    • Windows XP Windows XP
    • Browser:
    • Firefox 14.0.1 Firefox 14.0.1
      • View Profile
      • Email
    Re: Why Attack Success?
    « Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 04:46:54 PM »
  • Go Up
  • Go Down
  • If you are paying a higher tax rate you should hurry up and buy a house.  Property taxes are a deduction and when you lose your shirt on the house, it can be a write off if/when you can ever sell the fuggin thing.

    So you can get bashed for paying a lower tax rate while you lose all your money.  Losing equity, the new American dream.