Author Topic: Cristobol  (Read 26708 times)

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Offline BOB

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Re: Cristobol
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2014, 04:04:58 PM »
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    Vehicles belong on a road or a parking lot


    /\ that is such an ignorant statement

    Offline jammy

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #61 on: September 04, 2014, 04:27:27 PM »
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  • Please enlighten me...or shall I assume your expertise stems from liking to use your 4WD vehicle on the beach?

    http://serc.carleton.edu/vignettes/collection/35397.html
     The use of 4-Wheel Drive (4WD) vehicles on coastal beaches is an activity that attracts considerable controversy amongst beach users. 4WD vehicles are currently permitted access to hundreds of beaches throughout Australia.The ecological and physical impact of 4WD vehicles on beaches is an area of steadily growing knowledge. The effects on dune vegetation and vertebrates have been the focus of many studies with fewer studies directed towards the effects on invertebrates and the physical disturbance to the beach.4WD vehicles directly physically alter beaches by affecting the beach surface with tyre tracks. The distribution of these tracks is principally between the lower swash zone (extent of wave run-up) and the foredune. This zone is the source of sand for the creation, replenishment and growth of coastal dunes. Coastal dune systems play a substantial role in protecting and nourishing the beach and the areas behind it during and after erosion events.It was hypothesized that the tracks created as a result of driving a 4WD vehicle on a beach causes a change in the surface roughness that significantly disrupts the transport of sand from the beach to the dunes by the wind. It was thought that the vehicle tracks form a 'micro-catchment', trapping sand being transported across the beach and change the beach surface roughness, affect the airflow over the beach and the subsequent transport of wind-blown (aeolian) sand. A study was undertaken to quantify the effect of 4WD vehicle tracks on the amount of sand transported from the beach to the dunes. The first experiment involved simultaneously measuring the amount of sand transported on an unaffected section of beach and an adjacent section of beach with a single vehicle track (Figure 1). This experiment was repeated, increasing the number of times the vehicle drove along the track in 25 pass increments, up to 100 vehicle passes. The results of this experiment indicated that the vehicle track did affect the amount of sand transported (Figure 2). The mean weight of sand trapped on the section with vehicle tracks was consistently lower than the unaffected section. This experiment however did not allow the comparison between the number of times the vehicle drives along the track as the measurements were taken at different times, and therefore under different conditions. This lead to a second experiment being conducted.The second experiment was designed in such a way that the results would be statistically comparable. This involved artificially creating the wind using a garden blower and using replicate study plots (Figure 3). An analysis of variance (ANOVA) was conducted on the measurements taken and it was determined that vehicle tracks result in a significant reduction in the amount of sand transported compared to an unaffected section of beach (Figure 4). There was not a significant difference between the number of times the vehicle drove along the track.This experiment concluded that the tracks caused by 4WD vehicles resulted in a significant reduction in the amount of sand transported when compared to an unaffected section of beach. This experiment is however limited in two aspects. The first is the duration over which the measurements were taken. Due to the size of the sand traps used, the experiments could not be conducted for greater than 5 minute intervals because the traps would reach maximum capacity. It was observed that after longer periods of time the vehicle tracks in-filled, thus reducing their impact (Figure 5). Secondly, the experiments were conducted across a single vehicle track, with multiple passes, however it is commonly observed that under normal use, multiple vehicle passes result in multiple tracks. These limitations are acknowledged, but the significant results obtained indicate the potential implications of vehicle tracks on the transport of sand from the beach to the dunes. Further research is required into the physical impacts of 4WD vehicles on beaches not only to address the limitations of this study, but to address other gaps in the current knowledge in order to insure the successful management and sustainable use of coastal beaches by 4WD vehicles.
     


    http://www.boprc.govt.nz/environment/coast/vehicles-on-beaches/

    Vehicles On BeachesFour-wheel drives and motorbikes are becoming more popular.  Unfortunately they can have a dramatic effect on the natural character of our beautiful beaches.Some people take their four-wheel drives, dune buggies and motorbikes down to the beach to speed along the hard sand, drive to a favourite fishing spot, or to climb up and down the dunes.  These vehicles are damaging the Bay of Plenty's coastal environment that the vehicle users and other beach users are enjoying.Some beaches have been restored through careful re-sculpting, replanting and pest control, but other parts of the coast are still in poor condition.  Vehicle use also conflicts with other activities on the beach, like sunbathing and children playing in the sand.See also:
    • Rules for when and where vehicles are allowed on the region's beaches
    • Making a complaint for contact details and information about who to contact in different situations
    Environmental damageDune plants are very hardy plants.  They gather sand, shelter birds, and withstand wind and waves.  But they are very sensitive to a heavy vehicle driving over them.  All motor vehicles can kill plants with a single pass, and even the wide flotation tyres of quad bikes crush and destroy plants.
     Vehicles compact the sand, squashing small creatures that live on or under the sand and compressing their habitat.  They frighten away birds, lizards and other species sheltering in the dunes, and crush their nests and eggs.  Weeds and pest animals spread through the damaged ecosystem.  Drivers dump litter and waste material from their vehicles onto the beach and dunes.
    The first vehicle does the most damage - so even though the majority of drivers on beaches may be responsible, the less responsible minority greatly harm the coastal environment.Once the dune plants are destroyed, the foredunes and rear dunes are exposed to the wind and the sand begins to blow away.  Once a "blow out" forms on a dune, the dune begins to disappear quickly, blown inland.  The waves begin to erode the beach and dune because there are no plants to rebuild them with sand.This increases the hazard risk to people living near the beach.  Without the dunes, waves erode the beach and the land at a much faster rate.  Homes have more sand blown onto them.  Storm surges and possibly tsunami are more likely to damage homes and property. Beach user conflictVehicles on beaches can cause problems with other beach users.  People using popular beaches for swimming, sunbathing, fishing, playing sports or simply enjoying can be concerned about vehicles driving at unsafe speeds and/or too close to children and unaware beachgoers.The safety of the vehicle drivers themselves is also important.  Driving a four-wheel drive along the beach is different to driving through towns or on roads. Drivers without the necessary skills or care can risk damaging their vehicle, themselves, or others.Some people think that the special qualities of the beach that New Zealanders love are threatened by increased vehicle use on the beach.  The tyre tracks, the noise, conflict with other users and damage to the dunes are all contrary to enjoying the coastal environment.
    NLITB

    Offline avaday

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #62 on: September 04, 2014, 04:38:52 PM »
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  • Please enlighten me...or shall I assume your expertise stems from liking to use your 4WD vehicle on the beach?

    http://serc.carleton.edu/vignettes/collection/35397.html
     The use of 4-Wheel Drive (4WD) vehicles on coastal beaches is an activity that attracts considerable controversy amongst beach users. 4WD vehicles are currently permitted access to hundreds of beaches throughout Australia.The ecological and physical impact of 4WD vehicles on beaches is an area of steadily growing knowledge. The effects on dune vegetation and vertebrates have been the focus of many studies with fewer studies directed towards the effects on invertebrates and the physical disturbance to the beach.4WD vehicles directly physically alter beaches by affecting the beach surface with tyre tracks. The distribution of these tracks is principally between the lower swash zone (extent of wave run-up) and the foredune. This zone is the source of sand for the creation, replenishment and growth of coastal dunes. Coastal dune systems play a substantial role in protecting and nourishing the beach and the areas behind it during and after erosion events.It was hypothesized that the tracks created as a result of driving a 4WD vehicle on a beach causes a change in the surface roughness that significantly disrupts the transport of sand from the beach to the dunes by the wind. It was thought that the vehicle tracks form a 'micro-catchment', trapping sand being transported across the beach and change the beach surface roughness, affect the airflow over the beach and the subsequent transport of wind-blown (aeolian) sand. A study was undertaken to quantify the effect of 4WD vehicle tracks on the amount of sand transported from the beach to the dunes. The first experiment involved simultaneously measuring the amount of sand transported on an unaffected section of beach and an adjacent section of beach with a single vehicle track (Figure 1). This experiment was repeated, increasing the number of times the vehicle drove along the track in 25 pass increments, up to 100 vehicle passes. The results of this experiment indicated that the vehicle track did affect the amount of sand transported (Figure 2). The mean weight of sand trapped on the section with vehicle tracks was consistently lower than the unaffected section. This experiment however did not allow the comparison between the number of times the vehicle drives along the track as the measurements were taken at different times, and therefore under different conditions. This lead to a second experiment being conducted.The second experiment was designed in such a way that the results would be statistically comparable. This involved artificially creating the wind using a garden blower and using replicate study plots (Figure 3). An analysis of variance (ANOVA) was conducted on the measurements taken and it was determined that vehicle tracks result in a significant reduction in the amount of sand transported compared to an unaffected section of beach (Figure 4). There was not a significant difference between the number of times the vehicle drove along the track.This experiment concluded that the tracks caused by 4WD vehicles resulted in a significant reduction in the amount of sand transported when compared to an unaffected section of beach. This experiment is however limited in two aspects. The first is the duration over which the measurements were taken. Due to the size of the sand traps used, the experiments could not be conducted for greater than 5 minute intervals because the traps would reach maximum capacity. It was observed that after longer periods of time the vehicle tracks in-filled, thus reducing their impact (Figure 5). Secondly, the experiments were conducted across a single vehicle track, with multiple passes, however it is commonly observed that under normal use, multiple vehicle passes result in multiple tracks. These limitations are acknowledged, but the significant results obtained indicate the potential implications of vehicle tracks on the transport of sand from the beach to the dunes. Further research is required into the physical impacts of 4WD vehicles on beaches not only to address the limitations of this study, but to address other gaps in the current knowledge in order to insure the successful management and sustainable use of coastal beaches by 4WD vehicles.
     


    http://www.boprc.govt.nz/environment/coast/vehicles-on-beaches/

    Vehicles On BeachesFour-wheel drives and motorbikes are becoming more popular.  Unfortunately they can have a dramatic effect on the natural character of our beautiful beaches.Some people take their four-wheel drives, dune buggies and motorbikes down to the beach to speed along the hard sand, drive to a favourite fishing spot, or to climb up and down the dunes.  These vehicles are damaging the Bay of Plenty's coastal environment that the vehicle users and other beach users are enjoying.Some beaches have been restored through careful re-sculpting, replanting and pest control, but other parts of the coast are still in poor condition.  Vehicle use also conflicts with other activities on the beach, like sunbathing and children playing in the sand.See also:
    • Rules for when and where vehicles are allowed on the region's beaches
    • Making a complaint for contact details and information about who to contact in different situations
    Environmental damageDune plants are very hardy plants.  They gather sand, shelter birds, and withstand wind and waves.  But they are very sensitive to a heavy vehicle driving over them.  All motor vehicles can kill plants with a single pass, and even the wide flotation tyres of quad bikes crush and destroy plants.
     Vehicles compact the sand, squashing small creatures that live on or under the sand and compressing their habitat.  They frighten away birds, lizards and other species sheltering in the dunes, and crush their nests and eggs.  Weeds and pest animals spread through the damaged ecosystem.  Drivers dump litter and waste material from their vehicles onto the beach and dunes.
    The first vehicle does the most damage - so even though the majority of drivers on beaches may be responsible, the less responsible minority greatly harm the coastal environment.Once the dune plants are destroyed, the foredunes and rear dunes are exposed to the wind and the sand begins to blow away.  Once a "blow out" forms on a dune, the dune begins to disappear quickly, blown inland.  The waves begin to erode the beach and dune because there are no plants to rebuild them with sand.This increases the hazard risk to people living near the beach.  Without the dunes, waves erode the beach and the land at a much faster rate.  Homes have more sand blown onto them.  Storm surges and possibly tsunami are more likely to damage homes and property. Beach user conflictVehicles on beaches can cause problems with other beach users.  People using popular beaches for swimming, sunbathing, fishing, playing sports or simply enjoying can be concerned about vehicles driving at unsafe speeds and/or too close to children and unaware beachgoers.The safety of the vehicle drivers themselves is also important.  Driving a four-wheel drive along the beach is different to driving through towns or on roads. Drivers without the necessary skills or care can risk damaging their vehicle, themselves, or others.Some people think that the special qualities of the beach that New Zealanders love are threatened by increased vehicle use on the beach.  The tyre tracks, the noise, conflict with other users and damage to the dunes are all contrary to enjoying the coastal environment.
    impressive...you know how to use google.

    Offline fulltilt720

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #63 on: September 04, 2014, 04:39:49 PM »
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  • Back to the issue at hand...

    Offline SeaCliff

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #64 on: September 04, 2014, 06:55:59 PM »
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  • Well this thread took a direction I never saw coming.


    I understand all of the literature about vehicles on the beach, and the fairly plain fact that vehicles are disruptive of the habitat. Here's my problem: If you extend that logic, there would be no Ocean Parkway, which is and of itself is FAR more disruptive than the occasional jeep and subsequent jeep tracks ever could be. Extending the logic further, there would be no structural development at all in of the south shore LI  intercoastal marshlands and the adjacent oceanfronts - so (just naming places we all know) there goes Gilgo, Gilgo West, and for that matter most if not all of Point Lookout, Lido, Long Beach and yes, the Rockaways.


    Now before I get accused of drawing the logic to an unreasonable level, please consider this:


    My point, and the point of the extended logic, is that humanity itself is disruptive to virtually all other life forms on the planet, and the real question is where we, as a society, choose to draw the line. Personally, my line does not extend to prohibiting 4WD vehicles on selected areas of the beachfront that are otherwise inaccessible. This isn't because I don't believe there is disruption of the local ecology, but rather more overall view that the disruption is minimal compared to the value to the quality of life it potentially adds to those that use these vehicles to access those areas. And once all things are considered, isn't that what ultimately becomes the deciding line of where we choose to intrude on nature, and where we don't?
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    Offline damian

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #65 on: September 04, 2014, 07:42:53 PM »
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  • I disagree, Seacliff.  I think its really difficult to say when sometimes.  I recall a thread a few months back devoted to bitching about the protection of piping plover breeding areas, which I thought was also ridiculous.  I think a common value we SHOULD share, as surfers, would be a higher level of environmental stewardship. Personally I didn't get into this with a slash and burn mentality but more as a way to get away from people (laughable now, I know) and enjoy being outside.



    And, since we are essentially on the topic of over crowding, maybe having to take the walk would thin the crowds at the spot in question. I've done it.  Didn't kill me.

    Offline fulltilt720

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #66 on: September 04, 2014, 08:04:58 PM »
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  • The walk is easy—it's the run that's hard.

    Offline OldSoul

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #67 on: September 04, 2014, 08:55:53 PM »
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  • The walk aint bad, just not desirable...  Hey if everyone had to huff it, I wouldn't mind. But it is a nice advantage to cruise down with a cooler/multiple boards etc... saves time and energy for actual surfing.

    We should take measures to protect the longevity of our beaches; but at the end of the day it's a barrier Island... it will erode away if the forces of nature permit... regardless if a bunch of surfers and fishermen drive on it.

    Offline Kdropin

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #68 on: September 04, 2014, 09:07:52 PM »
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  • Parking in a lot that was built on a barrier beach is just as 'bad' ....then U have to pay what 15 to 40 dollars to park. Then people litter and that crap gets blown into the water..
    From what I've seen I think people that drive on the beach keep it cleaner then the 'lot' folks.. A lot easier to throw all your garbage etc. in the back of your vehicle then haul it back to your car or the nearest over flowing garbage can that the seagulls have already torn apart.
    Plus whatever crap washes up or that's around my spot for the day toss in the back of truck and toss it when I get home...win win

    Offline SeaCliff

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #69 on: September 04, 2014, 10:09:41 PM »
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  • I disagree, Seacliff.  I think its really difficult to say when sometimes.  I recall a thread a few months back devoted to bitching about the protection of piping plover breeding areas, which I thought was also ridiculous.  I think a common value we SHOULD share, as surfers, would be a higher level of environmental stewardship. Personally I didn't get into this with a slash and burn mentality but more as a way to get away from people (laughable now, I know) and enjoy being outside.



    And, since we are essentially on the topic of over crowding, maybe having to take the walk would thin the crowds at the spot in question. I've done it.  Didn't kill me.


    Fair enough - I wasn't even remotely suggesting that my opinion was right or wrong - just that it was my personal feelings on the matter.


    As far as hoofing it - it never killed me, either.
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    Offline Crackie Onassis

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #70 on: September 04, 2014, 10:16:28 PM »
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  • Everyone is local at a State Park.


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    So heavy you can't even pick it up.

    Offline BillGraham

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #71 on: September 05, 2014, 07:47:03 AM »
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  • Everyone is local at a State Park.


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    Hilarious.

    Offline BillGraham

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #72 on: September 05, 2014, 08:04:20 AM »
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  • I can't say much about the 4x4 issue without drawing fire from all sides.  I fought the surfing permit tooth and nail.  I do have one now because I'll be damned if I'm the only one walking to this and the other spots, but ultimately I think it is unsustainable.  When I was involved in Surfrider, I did forego getting the then fishing permit because I didn't want to see the chapter pursue the 4x4 issue as it's supposed to be an environmental organization.   Long story short, the chapter blew up over the issue and 4x4 people left and formed their own organization and secured the permit.   I'd be happy to see beach driving go away in my area but the fishing lobby is too strong for that to ever happen.  A lot of the 4x4guys are my friends and this is just a difference of opinion and I would never criticize their work in getting the permit but maybe it ALL needs to go back to walking.
    « Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 08:30:58 AM by BillGraham »

    Offline pooltoy

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #73 on: September 05, 2014, 08:06:07 AM »
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  • Can you explain the anchor thing a little more? Like an actual anchor, attached to a buoy or something? How big of an anchor are we talking? How did they get it into the lineup, paddle it out? Did they offer to share the anchor?

    Offline BillGraham

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    Re: Cristobol
    « Reply #74 on: September 05, 2014, 08:15:06 AM »
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  • Can you explain the anchor thing a little more? Like an actual anchor, attached to a buoy or something? How big of an anchor are we talking? How did they get it into the lineup, paddle it out? Did they offer to share the anchor?


    It was a danforth attached to a float.  They had a jet ski too so they probably used that to get it out there.  One of the local guys got wrapped up in it and dragged the whole mess in.
    « Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 08:18:14 AM by BillGraham »