[happy]

i love these topics. i can feel everybody's brain kick up a notch.

i wish i skateboarded. i can tell it has really helped SB. however, i broke my elbow on one many years back, just fooling around with a couple of friends on a longboard. we were being stupid and i guess i could try to get over it, but i just can't face the ER and then the OR again. imagine lying in semi-consciousness, first feeling them slice your arm open (the doctor freaked when i told him i could feel the scalpel; nerve blockers don't always get the SKIN), then hearing the DRILL as they screw your arm back together. the upshot is i've got to learn on my surfboards. i try to ride RD's long skateboard and it scares the brown trout out of me. i've gotten to the point where i can charge an overhead wave so i've got to be able to wimp out somewhere. no skateboarding.

as for the Curren/JBay vid being too much, i'll take that under advisement. that being said, i caught the last half of riding giants last night and you know what? i learned a lot about take offs. watching the take offs at mavericks was a large scale version of what one does on a normal sized wave. i'm sure there are dramatic differences, but i was able to watch how folks gained speed off the drop, headed up the face for a higher line, away from the heavy oncoming lip. this is more apropos for the WHEE thread, but its all related. and most inspirational of all was the unassuming and quietly charming Dr. Sarah Gearhardt. like most of the surfers at mavericks, the lady doc goes out and charges b/c she can, b/c she has to. no ASP tour, no Surfer spread await. doc goes out, does her thing (okay, is immortalized at one point by stacey peralta), internalizes what has transpired, and then goes home, showers, and heads to work (and btw, i think she is a Doc of chemistry, not medecine).

i realize this is a digression, but as the cane swells arrive and 4 days before RD and i leave for HI, its good for me to find a little inspiration. if this woman can tackle a 35 foot face then i can figure out how to improve my technique on a 6 foot rockaway special.

[skSURF]

A little bit of everything we were talking aobut from the best.
http://surfline.com/video/vids/2005/sep/boost1/flashcam.cfm

I can't stand this new viewer surfline is using. It always stops to buffer at the most important points.

[little_nasty]

I'm just learning to pump for real myself and I'm thinking it has a big connection to pumping a skateboard down a flat street. you have to be moving first on the skateboard and then you crouch down a bit and then simultaneously swing your hips into a tiny little turn and straighten your legs a bit.  with all four wheels on the ground and loose trucks it feels like the result is a centrifigul reaction force on the board causing the board to move sideways away from the center of gravity of your action, which is somewhere up in your hips.  but the board can't move sideways because the wheels grip the street ... so that energy gets channeled into the direction of least resistance which is forward, the direction you are already moving, and you get a miraculous little burst of speed.  You can pump like this for blocks if you get your timing right and the street is flat, never lifting any wheels off the ground. it's feels like it's about pushing against the street and letting the energy move you forward because it has nowhere else to go.

I think the action you are describing here is the 2% of pumping that I referred to that actually increases your forward velocity.  It is the same kind of exertion against a gripping point or keel that allows a sailboat to sail upwind.

Two things.  Surfboards don’t have front wheels or keels or fins or canards to grip, and so you hafta use your forward rails.  Most modern boards are not well made for this – at least not at high speeds.  Which brings us to point number two which is that this type of pump is really only effective for most humans at low speeds.  This probably holds true for skateboards as well.  Consequently, it is a valuable skill for quickly getting up to speed on the take-off – maybe trying to pull into a quick one – or after a stall.  I think this is what happy was observing shackmonster doing:

i have seen shacky do the abbreviated bottom turn into an immediate pump. it was pointed out to me by RD, to show how to get speed right off the bat. at times it seems shacky doesn't even do much of a bottom turn, so much as drops in almost sideways, pumps, and goes.

I have no idea how the pump works when it looks like shortboarders are kickturning across the flats.  maybe it's just an exaggeration of the same thing.

if we are thinking about the same thing, this is often guys trying to skate onto the reform through a dead spot.  And mostly, I think this is like what you are describing on your skateboard as well as reducing wetted surface and friction (similar to chop-hopping)..

[little_nasty]

love watching slater... anyway, i think the thing about him is not so much that he generates so much speed, but that he controls and conserves it so well.   I have never seen anyone come out of a sick maneuver with so much speed as him.  I think it's what allows him to flow his moves right after another so effortlessly.  A lot of guys can pull crazy stuff, but that's it - they're either done on that wave or they're kinda dead in the water and starting back at square one generating speed.. not slater.

[sir_schadenfreude]

Good point.

[luke25]

LN said:
I think the action you are describing here is the 2% of pumping that I referred to that actually increases your forward velocity.  It is the same kind of exertion against a gripping point or keel that allows a sailboat to sail upwind.

totally.  just like a sailboat's centerboard.  in fact, it seems like a lot about the concept of "drive" in fins no matter what they are doing is like a sailboat's centerboard.  But do you really think that this effect is only 2% of pumping?  I just watched the surfnline clip of kelly highlights at lowers from last week, and you can really see him accelerate off the lower pump from not too fast to pretty fast back up the wave...  would you take %20?  how about %25?

LN said:
Two things.  Surfboards don’t have front wheels or keels or fins or canards to grip, and so you hafta use your forward rails.  Most modern boards are not well made for this – at least not at high speeds. 

interesting.  how were older boards better at this? 

LN:
Which brings us to point number two which is that this type of pump is really only effective for most humans at low speeds.  This probably holds true for skateboards as well.  Consequently, it is a valuable skill for quickly getting up to speed on the take-off – maybe trying to pull into a quick one – or after a stall.  I think this is what happy was observing shackmonster doing:

Makes sense.  And at slower speeds is when I think I feel the "skateboard" pump most while I'm surfing. (but i'm mostly going pretty slow ). when you're going fast I think you're right that you gain speed mostly by continuously putting yourself up on the downslope and then briefly using gravity and the push of the wave before doing it again.

[little_nasty]

LN said:
I think the action you are describing here is the 2% of pumping that I referred to that actually increases your forward velocity.  It is the same kind of exertion against a gripping point or keel that allows a sailboat to sail upwind.

totally.  just like a sailboat's centerboard.  in fact, it seems like a lot about the concept of "drive" in fins no matter what they are doing is like a sailboat's centerboard.  But do you really think that this effect is only 2% of pumping?  I just watched the surfnline clip of kelly highlights at lowers from last week, and you can really see him accelerate off the lower pump from not too fast to pretty fast back up the wave...  would you take %20?  how about %25?

Well first, 99.9999% of us are not Kelly.  And second, I’d say that kinda of pump makes up like maybe 20% of his.  I dunno, 2% may be a little light – I was kinda exaggerating.  I guess I’d take 10..

LN said:
Two things.  Surfboards don’t have front wheels or keels or fins or canards to grip, and so you hafta use your forward rails.  Most modern boards are not well made for this – at least not at high speeds. 

interesting.  how were older boards better at this?

Well come to think of it, I suppose they weren’t.  But some forward/mid rails have a harder edge that is more effective for this.  But like all design factors it is a tradeoff.  Personally, I wouldn’t want such a twitchy rail.  But maybe with the right rocker…