Justice is served

[chocolate hostage]

the man deserves a medal in my opinion. I for one would like to live in a place where I knew my neighbor was watching out for me like that.
====================================

Texas man cleared of shooting suspected burglars

HOUSTON — Ever since he fatally shot two men he suspected of burglarizing his next-door neighbor's home, 62-year-old Joe Horn has been both praised and vilified for his actions.

Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the intruders. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but a defiant Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

Some community activists wanted Horn to face charges for the deaths. Supporters of the retired grandfather said what he did was justified under the law.

After listening to evidence in the case, including testimony from Horn himself, a grand jury on Monday cleared him of the shootings.

"He wasn't acting like a vigilante. He didn't want to do it," said Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney.

Lambright said Horn was not a "wild cowboy" who took the law into his own hands after he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

Instead, Horn was a frightened retiree who tried to defend his neighbor's property and when the two men came onto his yard and threatened him, Horn defended himself, Lambright said.

"He was scared. He was in fear of his life," he said.

Grand jurors had to consider two issues in the case: the intentional killing of another person and whether the killing was justified either by self-defense or the defense of property, Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town. It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.

"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz told the Houston Chronicle in Monday's online edition. "This was no more than a vigilante."

Horn did not speak with reporters on Monday.

A large red sign with the words "No Trespass" on it blocked the path to his front door and a handwritten sign on the door said "Please no media," "No Trespassing" and "Do not knock or ring bell." A couple of neighbors also had signs on their doors asking media to leave them alone.

A few police cars patrolled the area near Horn's home.

The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

The city of Pasadena, where protesters and defenders of Horn engaged in counter-demonstrations, pledged to keep its police force staffed enough to protect its citizens.

Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said he didn't expect Horn to be indicted. "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing."

In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

After the shooting, he redialed 911.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press

[elkisthebachelor]

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

This guy wanted to shoot himself some burglars.  He went outside with the intention of shooting someone.  If he had stayed inside and waited for the police, none of this would have happened.  They weren't on his property until he went outside and confronted them.  This verdict is a piece of shiz.

[TropicalCreations]

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

This guy wanted to shoot himself some burglars.  He went outside with the intention of shooting someone.  If he had stayed inside and waited for the police, none of this would have happened.  They weren't on his property until he went outside and confronted them.  This verdict is a piece of shiz.

Agreed, that guy gets blow people away with a shot gun and I almost get arrested for lighting off bottle rockets on the beach.....

This country is the land of hypocrisy

(obviously I think its bs that fireworks are illegal and guns not)

I wouldnt expect anything less from Texas.

[elkisthebachelor]

Oh yeah, just to point out one more thing, the guy shot them both in the back.  How fvcking threatened can you be when someone has their back to you, probably running away.  That's some Robert Ford shiz right there.


He wanted to shoot someone, and the legal system just gave him a free pass on it.

[NYLocal]

....he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

Sorry but these guys were not choir boys.

[elkisthebachelor]

....he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

Sorry but these guys were not choir boys.

Yeah, how did Grandpa Shoot them in the Back know about their previous criminal records?  This is a case of murder, or, at the very least, manslaughter. 

It's completely clear that they either didn't know he was there when he SHOT THEM IN THE BACK, or he had successfully scared them off and they were running away when he decided to SHOOT THEM IN THE BACK ANYWAY.  By law, he could shoot them if he felt his life was in "mortal danger."  That clearly wasn't the case.  Dude should be prosecuted.  You can't have one law for one person and another law for someone else.

[seb70]

only i n  T  E  X  A  S 

[NYLocal]

....he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

Sorry but these guys were not choir boys.

Yeah, how did Grandpa Shoot them in the Back know about their previous criminal records?  This is a case of murder, or, at the very least, manslaughter. 

It's completely clear that they either didn't know he was there when he SHOT THEM IN THE BACK, or he had successfully scared them off and they were running away when he decided to SHOOT THEM IN THE BACK ANYWAY.  By law, he could shoot them if he felt his life was in "mortal danger."  That clearly wasn't the case.  Dude should be prosecuted.  You can't have one law for one person and another law for someone else.

what the 2 guys were doing was ILLEGAL, they were stealing. they got what they deserved. sorry but i have no sympathy for them.

[chocolate hostage]

this is a great verdict.

If he had stayed inside and waited for the police, none of this would have happened.   

actually, if the two illegal immigrants had not decided to rob a family's house none of this would have happened. 

But thats beside the point.I can say these felons obviously had not much to lose, and would kill if they came up on someone in the home they were burgling and thought empty, so by your logic, I can say his brave, decisive actions saved innocent lives.

Also, just b/c you and others would choose to cower frightfully in your house while this went on, thats fine, and thats your choice, but that doesn't and should not preclude others from doing the right thing.   

[Bubba]

this is a great verdict.

Its not a verdict.  The Grand Jury chose to ignore instructions and not indict.

If he had stayed inside and waited for the police, none of this would have happened.  

actually, if the two illegal immigrants had not decided to rob a family's house none of this would have happened. 

But thats beside the point.I can say these felons obviously had not much to lose, and would kill if they came up on someone in the home they were burgling and thought empty, so by your logic, I can say his brave, decisive actions saved innocent lives.

Also, just b/c you and others would choose to cower frightfully in your house while this went on, thats fine, and thats your choice, but that doesn't and should not preclude others from doing the right thing.  

[/quote]
The article does not even say if they were armed, how can you say with such certainty that they would kill?  The house they robbed was empty.

This is ridiculous. 

[Crackie Onassis]

If anyone deserves a medal, it is the 9-11 operator:

In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

I heard the call on CNN last night, and this article omits the operator's line "Property isn't worth killing someone over."

[elkisthebachelor]

this is a great verdict.

If he had stayed inside and waited for the police, none of this would have happened.   

actually, if the two illegal immigrants had not decided to rob a family's house none of this would have happened. 

But thats beside the point.I can say these felons obviously had not much to lose, and would kill if they came up on someone in the home they were burgling and thought empty, so by your logic, I can say his brave, decisive actions saved innocent lives.

Also, just b/c you and others would choose to cower frightfully in your house while this went on, thats fine, and thats your choice, but that doesn't and should not preclude others from doing the right thing.   

This is completely absurd logic.  The amount of speculation you're using is ridiculous. 

Also, as far as I'm aware, and I'm sure Bubba would know better than I do, no state in the union has the death penalty as a punishment for burglary.  This is pure vigilantism. 

Oh, and I love the "you're a weak sissy" implication you added in there.  Nice, kid.  I actually am a gun owner, much to the surprise of my friends, and probably wouldn't think twice about shooting someone that broke into my house while I was home.  That is in no way what happened in this situation.  This guy went outside looking for trouble. 

[chocolate hostage]

well, in Texas, where basically more people own guns than don't, you break into a house, I think you know the risks and you deserve whatever happens to you. I like the whole "house was empty" element. Gee, how thoughtful, to choose to burgle the house while no one was there. The owners come back to find the place is ransacked, just file an insurance claim, no big deal, right?  Its not about taking a life over some jewelry - its about protecting your domain and being an involved member of your community.   

[UNCLE!!]

Shoot the frakin rats. I hope my neighbors are so villigant.

[Bubba]

well, in Texas, where basically more people own guns than don't, you break into a house, I think you know the risks and you deserve whatever happens to you. I like the whole "house was empty" element. Gee, how thoughtful, to choose to burgle the house while no one was there. The owners come back to find the place is ransacked, just file an insurance claim, no big deal, right?  Its not about taking a life over some jewelry - its about protecting your domain and being an involved member of your community.  

It wasn't his domain!

Since when does "being an involved member of your community" equate to shooting unarmed burglars in the back?

The issue here is not the behavior of the two dead burglars, we can all agree that they were thieving scumbags.  The question under the law is whether or not this guy had a reasonable fear for his life that would justify his use of deadly force.  Based on what I've read of the case thus far, he did not.  Under the law, a bill indicting Horn should have issued, leading to a full trial.

However, Grand Juries are populated by people from the county in which they are empaneled.  In this case, Horn got lucky.  As Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said: "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing." 

I think a smart trial attorney could get a civil judgment against Horn for wrongful death.  Given the facts as we know them thus far, it seems clear to me that this guy intended to kill the burglars all along.  He wasn't protecting his own property, there is nothing to indicate that he had authority to protect his neighbor's property and there is nothing to suggest his life was ever in danger.