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« on: March 23, 2008, 07:23:59 PM »

Nope, not NY harbor. It's Reynolds Channel via the east rockaway inlet.  I have no scientific proof of this, but this article just reinforces what I've believed for a long time. Think about it - which direction is the predominant drift? And where would that bring the "treated" sweage from Reynolds Channel? Yep...right to our backyard. The article never mentions the Rockaways, but i doesn't have to for me...I'd say the rockaways should unite to support ANYTHING that helps reduce Reynolds Channel pollution.

********************************
Sewage concerns in Bay Park revive old proposal

BY JENNIFER SMITH jennifer.smith@newsday.com March 23, 2008

Every day, Nassau County's Bay Park sewage plant discharges some 58 million gallons of treated effluent to Reynolds Channel amid a classic South Shore backdrop of marsh islands, migratory birds and lonely bay houses.

It's the only place on Long Island where a major sewer pipe empties into an enclosed bay - the other big South Shore plants discharge to the ocean - and Bay Park operates with fewer restrictions than the North Shore plants that flow to Long Island Sound.

But in recent months, concerns about the sewage's impact on water quality and marine life along with a much-debated proposal to consolidate nearby sewage plants have pushed Bay Park pollution to center stage. They've also revived a 30-year-old discussion to extend the plant's outfall pipe two miles to the ocean.

"We don't want to see what happened in Jamaica Bay happen to our bay," said Rob Weltner, head of the Freeport nonprofit Operation Splash, which works to clean local waterways. Scientists blame sewage, pollution and development for the loss of dozens of acres of Jamaica Bay marshland.

Extending the Bay Park pipe to the Atlantic was first recommended in a 1978 landmark water-quality study by the Nassau-Suffolk Regional Planning Board. But for three decades, the idea was relegated to the back burner by lack of interest, money and political will.



New interest in ocean pipe

That's changing now. The state Department of Environmental Conservation has agreed to study the bay's water quality, which could lead to better sewage treatment and maybe even an ocean pipe. Meanwhile, after prodding from residents and environmental groups, Nassau has cautiously taken up the extension idea.

Bay Park was built in East Rockaway on the cusp of the postwar suburban boom. Then, treated sewage was dumped right off the bulkhead, north of the marsh islands and narrow channels in western Hempstead Bay. In the 1960s, as a condition of more than doubling the plant's capacity, Nassau moved the Bay Park outfall pipe two miles south to its current location in Reynolds Channel, west of the Long Beach rail bridge.

Beside Bay Park, four other plants also have outfall pipes in the bay. Together they add another 7 million to 8 million gallons of sewage each day.

Tides carry it all to the ocean, the DEC says, though the agency doesn't know how long it takes to flush sewage from the bay. With local high tides ranging from 3 to 5 feet, however, "that's a fairly significant tidal exchange for a bay that is relatively shallow," said William Hastback of the agency's Bureau of Marine Resources.

The other two large Island facilities, Cedar Creek in Wantagh and Bergen Point in West Babylon, pump effluent south of the barrier islands to the ocean, where sewage dilutes more quickly than in a bay. Both these plants opened in the 1970s: Nassau showed no interest then in extending Bay Park's outfall pipe, said Lee Koppelman, former head of the Long Island Regional Planning Board and the 1978 study's project director.



Troubled waters

State environmental officials consider western Hempstead Bay "impaired." Shellfish harvesting is prohibited west of the Meadowbrook Parkway because of high fecal coliform levels that the DEC says stem from storm-water runoff from the communities to the north and recreational boating. The levels also occasionally close beaches at Hewlett Point and Island Park, and summertime algal blooms can discourage swimming and boating. Conditions are better to the east, though large swaths remain closed to shellfishing.

Environmental advocates say that decades of effluent have clouded the western bays, killing off fish, and that nitrogen has triggered algae blooms that smother life on the bay bottoms. They want Nassau to improve treatment at Bay Park and ultimately extend the pipe out to sea.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that millions of gallons of sewage a day is going to diminish the water quality of the bay," said Adrienne Esposito, of Citizens Campaign for the Environment in Farmingdale.

Storm-water runoff isn't the only reason shellfishing is prohibited in western Hempstead Bay. Hastback said that harvesting is prohibited within a certain distance of outfall pipes in case plants fail and discharge untreated sewage. But DEC staff doesn't know the size of the sewage safety zone in western Hempstead Bay - the entire area was already closed to shellfishing when the agency came into being. It remains closed because of high coliform levels.

The regional planning board study found that in 1976, treatment plants discharged 16,000 pounds of nitrogen there each day - the largest load released to any Long Island bay. But since the 1970s, little more has been done to monitor these nitrogen levels or explore how exactly sewage may affect the bay's ecology. Meanwhile, millions have been spent on water-quality problems in Long Island Sound and Jamaica Bay.

Hempstead Bay, however, has yet to experience the dramatic declines that ring alarm bells, such as the summer fish kills in western Long Island Sound that happened after widespread algal blooms.

"This bay doesn't get the attention because it's not anoxic [lacking oxygen]," said DEC regional water manager William Spitz. The agency listed nitrogen, which causes such plant growth, as a suspected pollutant there in 2006. Still, he added, "No scientist could look you in the eye and say they're certain that nitrogen is a problem."



$200M for ocean outfall

Nassau officials estimate that extending the pipe would cost $200 million. They're reluctant to spend that kind of money unless the DEC says they must. But DEC officials say nothing prevents the county from acting. "The benefits of an ocean outfall are clear," said regional director Peter Scully. "There is no reason Nassau County couldn't start taking steps today to shift to an ocean outfall."

That said, County Executive Thomas Suozzi's administration appears to be the first to take even a remote interest in the idea since it was first proposed 30 years ago.

Nassau officials said the outfall pipe is an option under consideration in the county's master sewage plan, scheduled to be completed this summer. The first part of the plan looks at saving money on treatment plant upgrades by diverting effluent from smaller municipal facilities to Bay Park and Cedar Creek. Suozzi says the plan would help the environment because the county plants treat sewage more and have fewer permit violations than the older plants targeted for consolidation.

Earlier this year, the Nassau Legislature approved a takeover of three plants that would send about 2.5 million gallons of sewage per day from older plants in Lawrence and Cedarhurst - which discharge to tributaries of Hempstead and Jamaica bays, respectively - to Bay Park. County officials also hope to sign on Long Beach, whose plant also sends an average of 5 million gallons per day to Reynolds Channel.

The plan has angered many residents near the Bay Park plant, who fear more sewage will increase odor and worsen pollution in the bay - charges Nassau officials deny.

"We need the [ocean] outfall pipe before you start to bring more sewage into one place," resident Connie Petrucci, 46, said last week at a heated public meeting on the proposal. "Bay Park alone is enough for the legislature to propose an outfall pipe today."

Environmental advocates, meanwhile, back the consolidation. They say it would make it easier to secure federal money for treatment upgrades at Bay Park, and, eventually, to extend the pipe to the ocean.

Grant money for sewage projects has all but dried up since the outfall pipe recommendation first was made in 1978. Back then, about 75 percent of municipal sewage construction costs were picked up by the state or federal governments, said Howard Golub of the Interstate Environmental Commission, which enforces water quality regulations in adjacent waters of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. These days, most assistance comes as low-interest government loans or through direct borrowing.

Working with Esposito and Weltner, Nassau officials have started lobbying state and federal lawmakers in hopes of securing special grants to help upgrade treatment at Bay Park and Cedar Creek - with an eye to possible expansion of the Bay Park outfall.



Another option

Still, earlier this year Nassau public works Commissioner Raymond Ribeiro said it didn't make sense to commit to an ocean pipe until researchers know how much Bay Park actually contributes to the estuary's water quality problems. It could be as effective, and cheaper, to simply upgrade the plant to reduce nitrogen in the wastewater.

Given the estimated cost of the pipe extension, "it would be reasonable to look at nitrogen removal," said James Tripp, general counsel for the Environmental Defense Fund and a member of the 1978 study's citizen advisory committee. Tripp also noted that over time, sewage dumped in the ocean can also cause similar problems, such as algal blooms and low oxygen levels.

"An assumption was that the ocean was kind of an infinite sink for nitrogen. That's not true," Tripp said.



DEC to launch new study

In December, Scully announced that the DEC would undertake a detailed study of western Hempstead Bay to identify the sources of suspected contaminants such as nitrogen. The analysis will also establish how much pollution the estuary can handle while still remaining healthy - what scientists call the total maximum daily load.

Such calculations for Long Island Sound have led to mandated improvements over the last decade for sewage treatment facilities along the North Shore. Those upgrades are expected to cost $114 million.

Environmental advocates had been pushing for a daily load analysis for western Hempstead Bay and others along the South Shore since 2001, when the South Shore Estuary Reserve management plan was created. DEC officials expect the analysis to begin late this year or next.

Marine life

Despite degradation from sewage and stormwater runoff, life still stirs in Hempstead Bay. Among the inhabitants there:

BIRDS

Herons, egrets and ibises nest on marsh islands, as do terns and gulls. Ducks and geese flying south stop by to rest and feed from shallow waters and tidal flats, which also draw migratory shorebirds such as piping plovers, red knots and American oystercatchers.

FISH

Menhaden and winter flounder spawn in the sandy shallows. Young bluefish, striped bass and summer flounder use the bays as nurseries. Soft clams, bay scallops and ribbed mussels have been reported here, although shellfishing is mostly prohibited because of water-quality concerns.

OTHER ANIMALS

Harbor seals frequent these waters in the winter. Summer brings sightings of bottlenosed dolphins and minke whales, and sometimes juvenile Atlantic ridley and loggerhead sea turtles.

- JENNIFER SMITH



SOURCE: U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE

Copyright © 2008, Newsday Inc.
**********************************************

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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 09:48:34 AM »

I've used this in the past to check out water quality.  Anyone know the deal (accuracy/frequency) with these reports?

http://www.surfrider.org/bwtf/BWTFoutput2.asp


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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2008, 11:36:33 AM »

And the major source of pollution for the Ocean Beaches in Rockaway is...
Kooks from Manhattan Grin Grin

No, But for real, the sewage problem is terrible. My mom lives near Jamaica Bay in Brooklyn. The Sheapshead Bay treatment sewage plant (aka "The Sh*t Factory"), smells terrible and dumps sewage, sometimes raw sewage when they get backed up.
The salt marsh of Jamaica Bay is considered to function as "the Liver" of the Atlantic. But if the salt marsh is full of sh*t how can it clean the ocean? You can't clean sh*t with sh*t Grin Grin
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 12:51:37 PM »

Im suroprised this thread didnt get more attention. its really good info.
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2008, 01:01:10 PM »

Im suroprised this thread didnt get more attention. its really good info.

It's true, psycho - it's stunning that Reynolds Channel and the east rockaway inlet is never discussed as the source of much of our pollution.
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2008, 01:46:45 PM »

I can tell you from years and years growing up at Jones beach, when the wind is West the water from Jones Inlet (the East end of Reynolds Channel) The water is putrid. We called it the Jones Beach Brown. I think things have cleaned up in the last 10 years. I can remember water that smelled latterly like sht. Its got to be the Bay dumping, because the discharge pipe for SE Nassau that originates in Wantagh/Seaford at Cedar Creek discharges "through and outflow pipe into the Atlantic Ocean, two miles offshore." When the wind is South all the way around to northeast we have infinitely cleaner water both in visibility and smell....
Interesting stuff, it appears that Reynolds Channel is influencing allot of people.

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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 02:52:48 PM »

I can tell you from years and years growing up at Jones beach, when the wind is West the water from Jones Inlet (the East end of Reynolds Channel) The water is putrid. We called it the Jones Beach Brown. I think things have cleaned up in the last 10 years. I can remember water that smelled latterly like sht. Its got to be the Bay dumping, because the discharge pipe for SE Nassau that originates in Wantagh/Seaford at Cedar Creek discharges "through and outflow pipe into the Atlantic Ocean, two miles offshore." When the wind is South all the way around to northeast we have infinitely cleaner water both in visibility and smell....
Interesting stuff, it appears that Reynolds Channel is influencing allot of people.


Definately West wind is always a cause of terrible water quality. I remember on numerous occassions with strong west wind and current, needles and medical waste are found washed up on the R*ck. Its a real pain in the a$s because as soon as they find one needle they close the whole friggin beach down and don't let anybody in the water. The source is said to be from New Jersey. In addition to medical waste, there is also alot more garbage floating around. 
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 03:42:59 PM »

I can tell you from years and years growing up at Jones beach, when the wind is West the water from Jones Inlet (the East end of Reynolds Channel) The water is putrid. We called it the Jones Beach Brown. I think things have cleaned up in the last 10 years. I can remember water that smelled latterly like sht. Its got to be the Bay dumping, because the discharge pipe for SE Nassau that originates in Wantagh/Seaford at Cedar Creek discharges "through and outflow pipe into the Atlantic Ocean, two miles offshore." When the wind is South all the way around to northeast we have infinitely cleaner water both in visibility and smell....
Interesting stuff, it appears that Reynolds Channel is influencing allot of people.


Definately West wind is always a cause of terrible water quality. I remember on numerous occassions with strong west wind and current, needles and medical waste are found washed up on the R*ck. Its a real pain in the a$s because as soon as they find one needle they close the whole friggin beach down and don't let anybody in the water. The source is said to be from New Jersey. In addition to medical waste, there is also alot more garbage floating around. 

If you are going to make broad statements like that, you will need to document it.  As I recall, and I simply don't have time to research it, there was one summer roughly 10-12 years ago where there was a problem with medical waste washing up on the beach.  It did indeed close some beaches for a few days until the source was located and the beach was cleaned up.  Since then I can't recall a beach closure for medical waste washing up.  There MAY have been an occasion or two when a block or two was temporarily closed, but it was not a widespead closure of all the beaches.  As to the source being NJ.....  Roll Eyes  Go to the beach in NJ when there is a east wind, the source will be said to be NY, primarily by know it alls like yourself.  If you had paid attention to the thread rather than posting just to be "heard", you would have realized that the original post referenced the major source of of pollution as being Reynolds Channel.  Since you obviously don't have or know how to read a map, I'll explain it for you.  Reynolds Channel is EAST of Rockaway, therefore it would require an EAST wind to have the biggest effect on Rockaway.  TropicalCreations statements about a west wind were relative to the fact that he was discussing Jones Beach which happens to be WEST of Reynolds Channel.  As to the statement that there is a lot more garbage floating around, I defy you to back that up.  I sure see a lot less crap in the water than I did years ago.
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 03:56:32 PM »

I can tell you from years and years growing up at Jones beach, when the wind is West the water from Jones Inlet (the East end of Reynolds Channel) The water is putrid. We called it the Jones Beach Brown. I think things have cleaned up in the last 10 years. I can remember water that smelled latterly like sht. Its got to be the Bay dumping, because the discharge pipe for SE Nassau that originates in Wantagh/Seaford at Cedar Creek discharges "through and outflow pipe into the Atlantic Ocean, two miles offshore." When the wind is South all the way around to northeast we have infinitely cleaner water both in visibility and smell....
Interesting stuff, it appears that Reynolds Channel is influencing allot of people.


Definately West wind is always a cause of terrible water quality. I remember on numerous occassions with strong west wind and current, needles and medical waste are found washed up on the R*ck. Its a real pain in the a$s because as soon as they find one needle they close the whole friggin beach down and don't let anybody in the water. The source is said to be from New Jersey. In addition to medical waste, there is also alot more garbage floating around. 

If you are going to make broad statements like that, you will need to document it.  As I recall, and I simply don't have time to research it, there was one summer roughly 10-12 years ago where there was a problem with medical waste washing up on the beach.  It did indeed close some beaches for a few days until the source was located and the beach was cleaned up.  Since then I can't recall a beach closure for medical waste washing up.  There MAY have been an occasion or two when a block or two was temporarily closed, but it was not a widespead closure of all the beaches.  As to the source being NJ.....  Roll Eyes  Go to the beach in NJ when there is a east wind, the source will be said to be NY, primarily by know it alls like yourself.  If you had paid attention to the thread rather than posting just to be "heard", you would have realized that the original post referenced the major source of of pollution as being Reynolds Channel.  Since you obviously don't have or know how to read a map, I'll explain it for you.  Reynolds Channel is EAST of Rockaway, therefore it would require an EAST wind to have the biggest effect on Rockaway.  TropicalCreations statements about a west wind were relative to the fact that he was discussing Jones Beach which happens to be WEST of Reynolds Channel.  As to the statement that there is a lot more garbage floating around, I defy you to back that up.  I sure see a lot less crap in the water than I did years ago.
Cheesy Wooh there Big Daddy, You really love to go at with me huh? Its pretty cute. Your such a Hater, I love that about you. I have read about the Reynolds Channel and i agree. I didn't say it wasn't. I was just discussing other sources of pollution which I felt to be relevant, until I was attacked by the RELEVANCE POLICE. The last medical waste incident i remember was in  2003. In that case the evening news reported that the waste was tied to illigal dumping off the Jersey shore.
Yes, I know that a source of pollution in New Jersey on an East wind would be that of New York which i never said didn't happen.
Da Kook, take it easy,  i was just pointing out observations of the trends in pollution that I witness. You are kinda rediculous with your attacks, whats up dude? Do you wanna have coffee or something one day?
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2008, 04:01:10 PM »

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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2008, 04:07:22 PM »

Hey!!  I KNOW I don't have a six pack (well, I do in the the cooler, but you know what I mean), but I do have my hair.   Wink
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2008, 04:13:11 PM »

I can tell you from years and years growing up at Jones beach, when the wind is West the water from Jones Inlet (the East end of Reynolds Channel) The water is putrid. We called it the Jones Beach Brown. I think things have cleaned up in the last 10 years. I can remember water that smelled latterly like sht. Its got to be the Bay dumping, because the discharge pipe for SE Nassau that originates in Wantagh/Seaford at Cedar Creek discharges "through and outflow pipe into the Atlantic Ocean, two miles offshore." When the wind is South all the way around to northeast we have infinitely cleaner water both in visibility and smell....
Interesting stuff, it appears that Reynolds Channel is influencing allot of people.


Definately West wind is always a cause of terrible water quality. I remember on numerous occassions with strong west wind and current, needles and medical waste are found washed up on the R*ck. Its a real pain in the a$s because as soon as they find one needle they close the whole friggin beach down and don't let anybody in the water. The source is said to be from New Jersey. In addition to medical waste, there is also alot more garbage floating around. 

If you are going to make broad statements like that, you will need to document it.  As I recall, and I simply don't have time to research it, there was one summer roughly 10-12 years ago where there was a problem with medical waste washing up on the beach.  It did indeed close some beaches for a few days until the source was located and the beach was cleaned up.  Since then I can't recall a beach closure for medical waste washing up.  There MAY have been an occasion or two when a block or two was temporarily closed, but it was not a widespead closure of all the beaches.  As to the source being NJ.....  Roll Eyes  Go to the beach in NJ when there is a east wind, the source will be said to be NY, primarily by know it alls like yourself.  If you had paid attention to the thread rather than posting just to be "heard", you would have realized that the original post referenced the major source of of pollution as being Reynolds Channel.  Since you obviously don't have or know how to read a map, I'll explain it for you.  Reynolds Channel is EAST of Rockaway, therefore it would require an EAST wind to have the biggest effect on Rockaway.  TropicalCreations statements about a west wind were relative to the fact that he was discussing Jones Beach which happens to be WEST of Reynolds Channel.  As to the statement that there is a lot more garbage floating around, I defy you to back that up.  I sure see a lot less crap in the water than I did years ago.

Excellent points, dakook and TC, in the response before.

Here's a couple of observations from being in and around here a couple of decades...

1. The Jamaica Bay Treatment plant over near Beach Channel HS improved Jamaica Bay IMMEASURABLY. From absolute first hand observation, nevermind the water color and precipitous decline in floating trash - the water quality in just the first year improved so dramatically that dead shellfish areas came back to life with almost stunning quickness. So if you think it's bad now, you should have seen it then.

2. To this day, ANY stretch of 5+ days of heavy onshores will likely bring a significant increase in the amount of plastics and other "floatables" on the beach. I've seen it time after time after time. Why? Illegal Offshore dumping at the edge of the continental shelf continues....and was actually much MUCH worse in the 1980's and earlier, because it 1. legal, and 2. it was far more toxic waste back then, and not for the most part "household" variety trash that sadly still ends up in our oceans. Want a little (sad) history lesson? Check this, from njscuba.net:

****************************

For most of mankind's history the world's oceans have been used as refuse dumps. Everything from sewage to everyday trash to medical, industrial and chemical waste has been disposed-of in the ocean, or in rivers that flow out to the ocean. In the vicinity of a major urban area like New York, you can bet there has been a lot of waste and dredge dumping, and much of it at sites that are alarmingly close to shore. All ocean dumping was finally banned by the EPA in 1988 after some massive fish-kills, but not before many seafloor habitats were contaminated if not outright destroyed. The two major ocean dumping sites that have served the New York area since the mid-1800s are the 12 Mile Dumping Ground and the Mud Dump. Old dump sites are marked on the charts as yellow areas or brown crosses.



EPA

The 12 Mile Dumping Ground was until recently the main repository for all of New York City's sewage waste, over six million tons annually. As such, this is a good area to avoid, both for fishermen and divers. The entire area is contaminated with toxic sludge and heavy metals, which forms a layer of poisonous black muck over everything. The 12 Mile dump was closed in 1987, after 63 years of operation. The average depth is about 100 feet. The area is slowly recovering, but I would not eat any fish or shellfish caught there, ever.

"the 12 Mile Sludge Dump was, and is, a toxic area. Although all remnants of biodegradable matter have long since been dissolved by the forgiving sea, the toxic metals contained within it are no doubt still present in the area's sediments, although I don't know to what extent. I have dived on the R.C. Mohawk 15 years ago and 5 years ago, and the positive change in the amount of sea life on the site was phenomenal."

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Check this out, from 1987: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DEFDC1030F934A1575AC0A961948260
So, if not for the work of concerned people (like us) 20 years ago, we'd be in far worse shape than we are even now.

What's my point? the same as in my original post - everyone, EVERYONE who lives, swims, surfs in the rockaways has a vested interest in getting Reynolds Channel as clean as possible, and supporting whatever efforts are ongoing..the same way  people from NY and NJ banded together to close the 12 Mile Sludge Dump 20 years ago.
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2008, 04:24:12 PM »

Well said Seacliff!  I've been in the ocean water around here for over 40 years and although I never seemed to get sick from swimming in it (and drinking it when the older brothers, cousins, friends, and large waves held me under) it definately seemed much much worse quality wise decades ago. 

I had family high up in the Nassau Police Dept tell me that the Cedar Creek waste pipe leaked all the way out along its 2 mile length to the ocean years ago but I'm not sure what its status is now.
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 04:30:23 PM »

wow....that's sickening, thanx for that link SC.
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2008, 05:58:39 PM »

So I started thinking about how LB factors into Renyolds channel.... Since we have concluded R0ckaway is afflicted by East wind, and Jones by West, What about LB.... And I honeslty dont know.. While I live in LB and have surfed here for over ten years I havent spent the consistant time on the beach nessary to make a conclusion. Honeslty I think LB might luck out from the fact the Renylods channel discharges to the East and West of LB.... Annyone have any thoughts?

I think the cliff is dead on, how can people sit back in 2008 and let this happen?
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